Do you ever think or do you just pound on your keyboard? Go back to spewing your nonsense in the political threads. Take ThraXed with you because those threads are lacking his witty style. The priced the risk wrongly, but they did go as far out as they needed. You think they only calculated risk for a couple years on mortgages that last a lot longer than a few years? They used old data to try and risk the mortgages that were given to people that would have never received them back from when the data was taken. Before the lowering of standards people who wanted and could afford mortgages, had them. So the run up was partially caused by an increase in demand from a flood of new homeowners who before weren't allowed mortgages.
The problem with that approach is the gamblers will take their losses, but will share the pain with anyone with everyone who comes asking for a loan. So unless you recently won the lottery, you'll be affected.
I agree, everyone was against drilling around our coast until people started paying $4 a gallon for gas now the majority of people are for expanding drilling around our coast. If the financial mess gets so bad that everyday an American feels it in their jobs, then a 700 Billion isn't going to large enough to bailout the financial markets. I wish they would change the mark to market asset rule.
But who says I want a loan? And if I did, I probably would get the one I wanted, they like me. I pay my bills on time. My mortgage is a 5.5 fixed and has about 25 years to go, that is if I keep the house which is currently on the market. Why did people need variable rate mortgages when it was at all time lows? Oh, they were buying way over their heads and could only afford the interest? Not saying I don't make financial mistakes, but people need to actually take responsibility for their own mistakes and some banks need to accept they were at fault as well.
SAFETY IN NUMBERS (or in this case... raw statistics) In college Biz courses they taught that lesson by discussing the building surge that accompanied the construction of DisneyWorld. Vacancy rates for apartments were zero, waiting lists long... bankers drooled over proposed apartment projects and a frenzy of new building ensued funded by well supported (on paper) loans. Construction workers streamed into Florida from surrounding states to meet the endless demand, and the vacancy rates stayed at zero and the waiting lists grew. THEN the Disneyworld project was completed. Suddenly it occurred to the bankers they'd been funding the apartment projects to house people who were building apartments for people who were building apartments for the guys constructing DisneyWorld. The bottom fell out. You cant just look at raw numbers without considering how they got that way. Oops.
as long as you take the country seriously. and look at the evidence i provide. You can make your own mind. a Pug came on TV and said that some of the pugs changed their mind because of what NP have said. They decided to go against their better judgment why? =================================== and for the fool that want to push me to red i have talked it over with the head pug and he wants me to give you this message
I was totally with you until the marital law thing . . . does that mean all the wives are in charge? Hell no to that. Martial law I can deal with, but you scare the hell out of me with your crazy ideas man.
Goddammit! First I spelled it "marhsal" then some dude corrected me in the next post and I edited it to "marital". That would be a scary thought...though my guess is most of you pussies have been under the control of your wives from the very beginning.
Take that back right now... my wife gave me permission to kick your butt if you dont. [Dont tell her I said that, I was really afraid to ask for permission.]
Cash any checks recently? or get a direct deposit? you expect the money to be there at a certain time, a bank fails from where you get your money from, the money won't be there.
I understand your point soniq, and I cant immediately disagree, but the problem is I dont necessarily think this 700 bil is really being entirely aimed at the fix. I've heard figures as high as 20bil in pork have already been identified... and the road between here and delivery will be filled with the usual scammers that show up to siphon any big government giveaway that has large numbers and fuzzy methods of implementation. Its Christmas for scam artists. Even if it was all going toward the problem (it wont) I'm not sure it is more than a bandaid that'll cover the tip of a much deeper problem. We dont have anything in our constitution that mentions the government function of bailing out private companies. The investment world needs to look at whatever their plan B wouldve been if the government wasnt available to suck up their losses and enact whatever plan that might be. This isnt a function of government in a capitalist system. Its gonna be a mess even if the 700 bil bailout is approved. We're all gonna end up paying the piper for the excesses of the corporate "elite" regardless. Night as well not spend 700bil up front. We dont happen to have it anyway.
Here is a link to how they voted. There is also a link to the bill there Rescue Package Vote I was happy to see my rep's voted "NO"
I disagree with this idea of always putting idealism ahead of pragmatism. I think the bailout is a necessary evil. That's not to say I think the bailout will fix everything but it's clear that without it things are going to get real rough real fast. The Great Depression was "fixed" with Government intervention, what would have happened if the "free market" had been allowed to fix that situation? I guess we'll never know but... I think FDR made the right move.
"The winners write the history books" Check the history books again. How long did it take FDR to "fix" the economy, and how much intervention had the Federal Reserve and Herbert Hoover already have enacted before FDR ever took over? We are reliving history, but it is being misunderstood, repeated, and even intensified because of the lingering propaganda of the New Deal mythology
korr - I am not an expert on the Great Depression, although I think I'd like to be as it does seem quite relevant to what's going on today. I will look into it a lot in the coming days. My main point is that I don't believe it's a good idea to always place idealism ahead of pragmatism. If sticking with the free market 100% destroys the economy then it's not a good thing, I don't care if it fits with someone's ideal reality or not. What matters is what will keep things going now and in the long term. I think these ideals often come from a sort of Utopian worldview. Communism can look pretty sweet on paper too.
My point is - there's nothing free market about the buildup into a crisis. Both were preciptated by a massive growth in public and private debt, fueled by credit expansion and low interest rates set by the federal reserve. (Roaring 20s, Booming 90s or is that mixed up). When the bubble inevitably deflates, government panics (1928, 2006) and a series of laws are enacted to: blame foreign competition/immigration; increase government spending through deficits; try to guarantee bad loans when the total volume of loans simply cannot be guaranteed; set price floors on declining assets (food in the 20s, houses in the 00s - the irony of course that we're making the necessities for life artificially expensive through government intervention, pushing more people into bankruptcy). So, two years into the panicked interventions the markets begin to collapse. The U.S. stock market didn't fully crash until 1931-1932, after the new higher "taxes on the rich" were implemented. These taxes on the rich in an already deflationary downturn ends up accelerating the rate of monetary contraction. From that bottom, the economy doesn't get back to its prior level until about 1936-1937 - and there is no real "growth" until the WW2 war effort begins. If we continue to repeat this path, I doubt we will survive as a global power this time. WW3 will not be so "clean"
ERRR Wrong, the Great Depression was prolonged by government intervention. Had the free-market been able to "fix itself" it may have only lasted 18 months. And still we don't learn from our mistakes.
If they wanted to do something that actually shored up the foreclosure losses, they would take the now government owned Fat Fanny and Porky Freddie and allow people to refinance the problem loans including the amount in arrears. Give them the low current rate and some breathing room to recover and you would see a lot less foreclosures and save some of the fat cats at the same time. I think that is call a Win-Win situation. But when the rich are only focused on themselves they can't see this.