I don't support Obama, hence your point is truly a non point. Thanks for trying, come and play again would you? ---FACT You know those big scary things. Security issues almost always help the Republicans, no matter who is 'best' or 'weak' on the issue.
I didnt say I have a problem with F/11, I pointed out that if you dont have a problem with a movie that very specifically resorts to fiction thru editing things into sequences to intentionally distort facts about a candidate right before an election it is kinda tough to be pissed because someone mailed out a documentary that raises an issue without recommending either candidate is the cure. The first case directs a verdict thru distortion, the second lets you draw your own conclusion. Yes, I see a difference. As for it being politically motivated, sure it is. Does it in reality favor McCain? Insofar as most of the public percieves Obama as weak on the topic of course it does. If Obama had better credentials on the topic or the DNC had run a different candidate that had better cred than McCain, it'd be pro-Democrat. Raising an issue isnt "dirty tactics"... it's what we should be doing more of instead of arguing about most of the bullshit both candidates are wasting time talking about. Is it "propaganda"? Only if it isnt a real problem and the facts shown are untrue. Allowing you to draw your own conclusion how to deal with the problem is intellectual honesty.
The timing doesn't make it propaganda. Propaganda is normally full of half-truths and fabrications, like any Michael Moore movie. The timing makes it opportunist. I did see the movie a while ago and I remember it as being full of actual footage of radicals in action. Which scenes do you think were fabricated? I agree that the timing may remind people of the threat that the Western World faces and will swing some votes toward Republicans, but it would not do that if the Democrats weren't so wobbly on this issue. I don't believe I had mentioned the Obama word anywhere. The weaker candidate is pretty obvious, isn't it? I don't plan to vote in this election for the first time in my life, but the less-qualified candidate is obvious to me as well.
'Obsession' from my reading is not 'truthful' and does have distortions. One is a movie you choose to pay to see, the other is sent to you without even wanting to see it, to battle ground states, with the pure intent of propaganda for an election. Night and day differences. I don't like anything that is not factual, this goes beyond 'not factual.' If favors Republicans, security issues almost always do. It is not 'factual' it is propaganda, being mailed out in masses to change the election. It is not 'factual' The timing is totally propaganda, opportunist would be on Michael Moore for making money, sending something out for political reasons that is not fully unbiased or truthful is very much propaganda. Scenes do not equate to being fully factually or unbiased. Do some searches, plenty of sites who dispute the 'factual' end of it. It would swing votes to the republicans regardless. You didn't need to name as it's obvious by your posts who you meant, plus for the billionth time Republicans no matter who the candidates might be are going to get a jump from this type of propaganda. --- BTW F 9/11 released on: 25 June 2004 for those who want to go see it. This movie arrived at my house without my request roughly September 23 08 Huge difference.
I can see we're not making headway, you are simply upset because even though it makes no mention of McCain, raising an issue that people think McCain is better on than the candidate you favor is unfair. Yeah. I know, you dont favor either candidate. C'mon, you've been arguing against McCain in every thread in the forum Grim. At least be intellectually honest with yourself at this point. Go back and read your own posts if you have doubts where your sentiments lie. I dont. Not an accusation, just a fact that is readily observable..
I am not 'upset' I am simply showing facts. Hmm could that be because I supported McCain before those new found lovers of him do? Could it be because I see glaring lies being orchestrated by his side of things? It has nothing to do with 'Obama' everything to do with the disgusting methods McCain, a man I used to support has chosen to undertake and the lies being told by those who support him. BTW when I see items that are lies against McCain I call people on them as well. Your fact was just shut down, sorry about that ---- http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=368756&postcount=385 I supported McCain a long time ago, before I made the above post. I gave him huge respect for his military service, also what Bush pulled on him in 2000. I have lost respect for him with his methods and lies this time around, perhaps I'm being hard on myself for supporting a man who has now changed around to be the type of person I despise.
A Michael Moore movie is always a distorted attack on someone or something. That distortion makes it propaganda. A documentary by its nature lays out the facts and is supposed to be objective, which is not what Moore does. He is a master at twisting reality for consumption by weak-minded people who never take the time to investigate the information he presents. Yes, there is a bias in Obsession, but that doesn't make it propaganda. I don't see where any of the actual footage has been fabricated or distorted, nor does it paint all of Islam as being a threat. There is a serious threat from radical groups within Islam and those people are portrayed by their own words and actions. The name of the movie is "Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West". That seems pretty clear to me. GRIM, I'm curious about why you received two DVDs. Were they two copies of the same movie? The original movie was not very long and is sold on one DVD.
Didn't say it was not propaganda, not sure why people are bringing up F 9/11 to dispute what is being done here. Bias to one side is propaganda. http://www.answers.com/propaganda Ahh a title means everything... --- I received 2 totally different copies, one for me and one for my wife.
That would of course make almost every global warming documentary a propaganda film because they almost never point out opposing valid scientific viewpoints. F 9/11 was brought up because it is a propaganda film that was timed to affect the outcome of a presidential election, which it the accusation that you made about Obsession. Obsession was released over a year ago and was not intended to affect a presidential election. I don't think the producer cares who deals with the issue of radical Islam. It nonetheless needs to be dealt with effectively by Western leaders.
Was F 9/11 sent out to those who did not want to see it? Total difference here, one is being funded by some unknown group for the simple reason to influence an election, F 9/11 was brought out much sooner before the election and not distributed for free to battle ground states. Totally different story, not even close to similar. BTW one might break the law and the other not
There isn't any law against private citizens giving out free copies of a factual movie. If it was full of slander or is libelous, it might be different. The movie is about radical Islam telling their own story. If Moore had made the same type of movie about a private citizen, he would have ended up in civil court. He was sued by one of the wounded GIs in the film near the end for misrepresenting his views. In the movie, all the wounded GIs appear to be responding negatively about the war to questions being asked by Michael Moore. All of the guys in the movie said that they had never met Michael Moore, nor were the questions in the movie the ones that they were asked. The guy who sued said that he was asked to participate in an interview with NBC about recovery problems in the hospital. He never made negative statements about the war; only about the problems he had with recovery. NBC sold the footage to Moore who fabricated the interviews and the answers were out of context. The guy lost the suit because he signed a waiver with NBC who apparently had a legitimate right to sell the interview and waivers to Moore. That is the difference with a genuine propaganda movie. Most of the rest of the movie was pretty much the same type of fabricated crap.
If it is funded to change an election there are laws... Again this is not about Moore's movie, not even remotely the same. There is plenty of propaganda and lies in 'obsession' from what I have read.
Try watching the movie, rather than reading liberal blogs. If there are lies, they are being presented by radical Muslims. Like I said, I thought the movie was pretty tame.
The people behind the distribution of this DVD are scum!!! Spreading hate, fear and trying to instill more fear in people. Bastards!
I watched it, definite propaganda if you believe it or not. That still is not the issue at hand, but I know it's easier to change it to F 9/11 and the like instead of looking at the facts in the case.
Well, you may have a point Grim, probably just shiftless propaganda. Maybe you could offer a counterpoint by telling us the benefits of radical Islam's war against the west.
You're still missing the entire point I even created this thread. Did I ever say there was a 'benefit'? I watched the video and it reminded me more of the same, how Bush used 'fear' to get what he wanted, to get us into Iraq. Fear being a method to sway people into who to vote for.
Is this a legal thing to do in the US? I mean people get imprisoned for even sending mass spam e-mails, how'd they get so many names and addresses? Doesn't seem right. Btw, this thread has become such an indicator to how people are capable of supporting the obviously wrong when it serves their way of thought.