I only bring it up to highlight the hypocrisy of the religious. It seems your "faith" is only important when it can be used to bolster a view which has nothing else to support it and is discarded when it's teachings contradict what you already believe. The reality is, You are no more "christian" than i am, You only claim to be. He was obviously using his lost limb in an attempt to add veracity to his point. You can fall for this kind of emotional blackmail, But i certainly wont. I will base my opinion on the merits of what is being said, Not the level of disability possessed by the person saying it. his lost limb adds nothing, And in someways subtracts, from the point he is making.
I don't think he considered himself disabled. He could probably still kick your ass and mine, missing limb or not. I don't feel anymore convinced of his convictions with or without a missing limb. It's not emotional blackmail. Its quite simply a way of showing you and I that those that lose the most, and give the most, are not the bitter ones. They are not the ones bitching. American's are whiners for the most part, and that video kinda throws that point back up in the face of those that take so much for granted. Now, had he pointed out all he did, or touted the fact that he gave of himself, risked life and limb and lost a limb, yeah... that would have subtracted from it. Its this humble attitude and respect that make people like that brave young man and so many others before him that much more plausible and believable. Even now that young man is thinking not of himself, but of the people he lost his leg protecting.
Probably shouldn't tell that to these folks. I wonder if in Mia's mind, these, too, are just "traitors?" Probably want to avoid what the vets themselves say - hell, they're only dying for this war: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=a9eBP4ZM28G8&refer=home Vets, like all of us, don't want to think their life was worthless. Are they to be dismissed, though they are vets, simply because they don't adhere to the party line? Not to me. I pointed out on another thread that I have been called a disgrace to my country, for my views, despite the fact I served honorably at the time of the Iranian crisis. As a vet, I tend to get testy when folks tell the people whose ass is on the line that they are traitorous, if holding a different opinion.
Oh is that how they decide who is disabled and who isn't? Based on who's ass' they can kick? It seems astounding to me that you think he wasn't using his lost limb to make his point. He obviously was. The number of legs he has is utterly and completely irrelevant when it comes to the validity of any points he is making.
No, I was trying to make a point that I doubt that this guy is "disabled" in the disrespectful sense that you feel he is. Who cares if he was. He has every right to.
As to the man's "motives," I completely disagree, Stox, that he was "obviously using his lost limb." It is just a fact that the man lost his leg, and I take him at his word, that he fought doing something he believed in. I can no more impugn his motives, without knowing him, than Mia and his ilk can impugn the 1000's of vets against this effort, without knowing them. I will agree with you that the fact of his lost limb has nothing to do with his argument. I personally wish I could tell the man I am grateful to him for his willingness to serve. I also wish I could tell him I believed in my deepest conscience that his loss was for a worthy cause, but I can't. I am deeply angry that such a President and such an administration as we've had has so wantonly tossed the lives of men like this vet out the door, but I will not dishonor this man.
Someone with only one leg is disabled. it's called reality, You should try it sometime. He has a right to. But it doesn't add anything to the veracity of what he is saying. I agree that it is a fact that he lost his limb north, but it is also a fact that he deliberately made it known. And he made it known because he knew that people will 1) feel compelled to agree with him on the basis that he lost a leg 2) think his point is more poignant than the point of someone who hasn't lost a leg. You can see even in this short thread how it works; Mia is painting this guy as some kind of protected member of society who should always be agreed with, and that anyone who disagrees with him or questions his reasons for flaunting his prosthetic limb is "disrespecting" him. Mia is using the disability to stem descent.
Do you realise how patronising it is to use someones disability as a reason to agree with them? The ironic thing is the people using his disability as an argument are the ones who believe it makes him less able to defend himself and as such are disrespecting him in a far more profound way than disagreeing with him ever could.
Gimp, handicapped, whatever... If that makes you happy. How is this any different than Obama portraying himself has black when he is only half? Does the outward appearance really matter that much? The point was obviously to let you know that he was not bitter even after having given up so much, and losing a leg. 99% of the people that bitch about the war do nothing to contribute to, or help in the war effort. While I see your point, I think the fact that his leg is gone and it is shown validates his resolve, moreso than it goes to serve as emotional blackmail. Ever hear the saying, "you don't have a leg to stand on". He doesn't, but yet he does, if you see the irony. I really believe the producers of the video were looking to validate his convictions rather than seek sympathy for his loss. I'm not painting him as anything. I'm just telling it like it is. As for the "flaunting"? He is not flaunting the loss of his leg. Again, if he were, he would have made it a point to bring it up. Real heros like this guy do not need to tell you they are heros, nor do they feel compelled to portray the elitist behavior that some presidential candidates have. I was a grown man before my father began to describe anything about his service during Vietnam. His own father never uttered a word to him about his service in WWII, though he did me only after having been asked and some 40 years after the fact. There's something to be said about people who are so humble.
Are you saying having one leg isn't a disability mia? As for Obamas skin colour, it's irrelevant and a red herring. If Obama used his skin colour to make a point it has no effect on whether this man was using his leg or not. He did make a point to bring it up. He walked away from the camera at the end specifically to show his lost limb. And if you can't concede that the revelation of the lost limb was not 100% deliberate then i am going to find it hard to take you seriously and you will expose yourself as a fantasist who constructs whatever reality is needed to support a point.
I'll again ask the community: Are these vets and their families part of that "99% that bitch, having contributed nothing to the war effort?" The vets who serve, the families who endure their service - these are some fringe group, their sentiments to be dismissed? I reject this, utterly.
A guy with a war injury supports McCain. That's his right as a voter to support whom he chooses. You anti-American living in this country and abroad need to get a life. You guys are really pathetic and a disgrace.
Who are you calling anti-American? Your use of "disgrace" sounds familiar - from a rep last night: Was this your anonymous comment, Biz?
That is a true statement. Those that complain enjoy the freedom our military provides. I like the way you worded that.
Thank you for confirming you have no honor, nor no courage, preferring the anonymous rep to speaking directly, apparently. Thanks, too, for your usual ironclad logic. Your pontification forgets it is members of the military themselves that are grumbling about a war they didn't feel was worth their sacrifice, but hell, never let truth get in the way of propaganda - fuck 'em! I know Mia has never served, and Biz has never been in the military, from my recollection. Gotta love these two telling Iraq war vets who have a problem with this war that they are traitors to their country.
I have no idea what your rambling rant is about. I did not direct that anti-American response toward you. From your response you must be feeling some kind of guilt, you have no honor, nor no courage. He has a right to support who he wishes. Wow and he made a video. He has a right. Hmm. Did I mention the Iraqi War vets complaining ,crying or whining. No I did not mention them at all. I was talking about Mr. Cook, you know the "Dear MR Obama guy." I don't read all the crap Stox and ATV spew on the forum however, you can side with them if you choose and fly whatever flag you choose. Amazing that I got the same REP. DO I care who sent it. NO, BOo Hooo. Grow a set NPT. I don't care what sick and twisted agenda you try to push. I could care less what you think or do. I served my time and I am not going to be baited by you NPT. I know where your are trying to send this discussion am I am not going there.
Biz, if I have it wrong, I apologize. I find it really puzzling, I guess - you say you "received the same rep." Since the rep said, in full: I find myself wondering why you "received the same rep," when you've never said anything about reparations. Want to revise yet again? Then I guess you just don't give a damn about clarity, since by saying: You ignore - and dishonor - the vets themselves who feel otherwise: You just don't think, I guess, Biz. As to all the rest, more intimations of my disloyalty to my country, well, again, you know what you can do with it. If you're still lost, feel free to PM me, and I'll be glad to tell you.
Those that complain enjoy the same freedom that our military provides and protect, and if you think different you are a complete idiot regardless of your degree.
While I have the highest degree of respect of the military, the constitution provides us our freedom, not the military. The military offers us protection, not freedom.