http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log_Revolution where does it mention guns? Tuđman's party, the Croatian Democratic Union, had already promulgated in their manifesto their intentions of recognising the non-Croatian population as minorities rather than constituent nations; and consequently, with Yugoslavia largely disfunctional, the social status of Croatia's Serbs had been inevitably demoted overnight. In an act of protest, the Croatian Serbs in the areas where they formed a majority, started to refuse authority to the new Croatian government. so serbs did exactly as croats did? the croats refused the authority of yugo and wanter separatism so the serbs refused the authority of croats? where does it mention guns? look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log_Revolution as for arkan...croats released him from prison so ask yourself rather why he got croat support not "JNA"...your "government" arrested mafia kingpin arkan but, like the serb gov., they were afraid to do anything...this is the point of being a mafia kingpin ...dont ask stupid questions you know what arkan was dont try to pain him as the "norm" and yes youre a racist movement asking for more rights for croats and less rights for others who made compromises and were in the same boat you were...rocking the boat may seem like something "heroic" and progressive to you but it was just bad for everybody as you saw from the war... you keep claiming "im failing miserably" and "proved wrong" LOL you seem to forget that YOU are the separatist and serbs just wanted status quo...non serbs had to leave croatia because of your naitonalism just ask the bosnians LOL... i like your double standards i really do LOL...its evident how important the serbs and their rights were LOL...sure they were demonstrating over nothing...they had nothing better to do than cut down logs and take on your special police...sure the serbs were mindless barbarians and the croat ultra nationalists were just angels with their nationalist program LOL... you broke up yugoslavia and 100.000s died because of your separatist manifesto...deny the franjo/busic/croatian spring events and claim it was all unconnected LOL...
Again, there's something called law&order and if you don't like any law you try to change it democratic way. At time serbs started rebelion in Croatia we didn't refused authority of yugoslavia and our politicians were still in yugoslav goverment. Check facts again instead of making things up. Also, you want to claim that you don't remember how log revolution looked like and what guys blocking roads have carried? Ok lol As usual you avoid to admit facts and avoid to answer direct questions. But let us google Arkan one more time, shall we... Looks like even before war he was serving his and yours beloved Yugoslavia. Can you ask me again what was wrong with Yugoslavia? I'll ask again: how can someone like Arkan was get support from so called JNA? Speaking about racism isn't it odd that pacifist like you claim to be and who also claim that he doesn't care if he pay tax to goverment x instead to goverment y the only problem sees if that goverment is led by croats or muslims? How about Tito? The only bad thing about him you came up with was claim that he was a croat! Imagine! A croat! Scary! And you're the one talking about racism hehehehehehe You failing miserably post after post after post to prove your points. All you have left is chidlish comments. Non serbs had to leave Croatia because of our nationalism?!? LMAO! Where did you get that shit from hahahahahaha Do you think before you post? I should ask you to provide some sources for your claims but that would be waste of time as usual. The fact is that 100.000s died because greatoserbs were convinced that they can change borders by force and that they can create ethnically clean Great Serbia. Everyone can read about trials to serbian war criminals in Hague and will came up with that fact. In transcripts from those trials you can find blueprint for ethnically clean Great Serbia which you like to call "Yugoslavia". Yes, we wanted our country all the time and it was our constitutional right to get it. We did everything legal and by constitution. There were no way to stop us except one: by war. So you tried that last option and failed miserably.
yes you did not refuse authority when you sent special forces to greet the demonstrators...this is why they had to send the army to turn you back a simple phone call was obviously not sufficient...BS about your politicians still being anywhere but in nationalist/separatist frenzy... LOG revolution not GUN revolution...if some people took arms its because croats took arms too... can i ask you something? why are you asking me about arkan when he was croat titos boy? croat titos boy who assasinated political oponents for croat tito? oh and who formed the JNA (croat tito) and who was a high ranking general in the JNA (croat franjo)...oh and whats up with croats letting arkan out of prison? RIGHT! you were powerless against him just like everybody else... being a non croat was a real issue...i can not see the future but when i lose my job and croats ask me to take sides and offer me 10% of what my house and property is worth i dont stick around to find out what will happen...you know what separatists/nationalists are like and you know why several 100.000-s left like i did... and im mentioning tito as an example how we lived under croats but did not ask for "special rights"... i got that shit from ME...i was kindly offered to leave and sell all my real estate for 10% of what it was worth and i did not know if i was going to leave alive with the money...ME and the 100.000-s of non croats who had to leave croatia...youre really desperate arent you? LOL...whats ante gotovina doing in the war crimes tribunal why is croatia not in the EU? you liar! LOL and they will read up on gotovina too and your nationalist ethnic cleansing holiday LOL...we cut logs you cut necks...serbia is all but ethnically clean, not something one can say about croatia LOL post a pre and post war ethnic map of croatia LOLOLOL... yes poor croats living in croat titos yugoslavia boooo hoooo...rocking the boat like spoiled primadonnas ruining yugoslavia for everybody with bill clinton...you did not win...you lost 100.000-s...you would have been MUCH better off with no war...we would ALL be in the EU...there would have been no WAR...wave your little flag and pretend the sun shines 2x harder now...pretend you fought for something other than stipping non croats of their citizenship and paying tax to X and not Y...some heroes LOL...
Armed people blocking roads anywhere in world would be called rebels or terrorist only in your twisted imagination they are the demonstrators lol What kind of country using it's army to protect terrorists from police forces? And it hilarious how you defending "demonstrators" like it's not ok to send police forces on them yet not only police forces but same JNA who stopped our police forces was send on real demonstrators in street of Belgrade! Nice county was it, huh! On one hand police is not allowed to deal with armed rebels who block roads and on the other hand army was sent on unarmed demonstrators in Belgrade! source They took arms and we send regular police forces to deal with them and every single country on planet earth would do that. The only problem was that we lived in Great Serbia called Yugoslavia and when serbs do something illegal they have been protected form "our" JNA. Again, the only problem you see in Tito is his nationality and yet you claim for me that I am nationalist and racist lol. Seriously, who are you trying to fool? You claim that Arkan was lowlife yet such lowlife was employed by Yugoslav government and yet such lowlife got all support from so called JNA when war broke out so I'll ask you again: how could someone like him be what he was and how come someone like him got full support from JNA if Yugoslavia was such nice country? Should anyone expect direct answer from you? I doubt it... Being greatoserb was and still is real issue here. We don't need likes of you around here. Because you had "special rights". The only one who left was greatoserbs. Good for them good for us. Are you happy now when you all live in same country? Is that you wanted form start? Again, what 100.000-s of non-croats you're talking about? Have source for your claim? Ah you mean serbs who fought against my country left! Funny how now you're trying to imply that there was someone else other than serbs not wanting to live in our country. Sorry to burst your bubble but it was serbs rebels who cleaned occupied territories from all non-serbs (not just croats!). I didn't saw you complaining about your hordes ethnically cleansed occupied parts of Croatia or Bosnia. Did I missed it? As yes! When serbs do something like that it's ok in your eyes! Btw Croatia isn't ethnically clean, we had many nations living here. It's just that greatoserbs like you are left my country. Other that trying to be funny you fail miserably at every single point of your claims. That's why you keep avoiding to answer on all direct questions and keep posting nonsense claims. If anyone is nationalist and racist here it is you and only you. Anyone can read nothing but hate coming out from your posts. No matter how many time I will debunk your nonsense you keep posting it again and again and again. Other than doing that all the time are you mature enough to have serious conversation? I seriously doubt that. From all your post I got only one conclusion: you're too immature and insecure to be taken seriously and probably that's real reason why didn't you have guts to fight for things you believe in. As I can see with you is useless to comment numerous false claims but I have some extra time to make fun of you... You mean the same Tito who was assassinating croatian politicians across Europe? Same Tito who was sending to jail because people had different opinion and wanted freedom? Tito - the communist dictator, right? Your blinded raging nationalism see only one thing bad about Tito: he was a croat! Scary, isn't it? If you check time line of Yugoslavias fall you would see who ruined it but your raging nationalism prevents you to do that. There's reason why all nation left Yugoslavia and didn't wanted to live in same country with nation runned by, guess who!, you got it kid, Slobodan Milosevic. Your claim that serbs only wanted status quo is completely false because it was Milosevic who started changes ruining Yugoslavia. And your poor attempts to bring Bill Clinton into this are laughable at least and not worth commenting. We did win. You can came out now from shelter. The war is over. Most of those 100.000-s died was innocent civilians slaughtered by same people you defend here so much. Tell that to those who started it than. You know, Milosevic, Martic, Hadzic, Babic, Karadzic, Mladic, Arkan and the rest of your buddies. We will be sooner or later. You? I am not sure about it. With Milosevic in power and JNA supporting Arkan war was just matter of time. My flag isn't little at all and sun shines at least 2,5x harder now. Yeah, my town where I was born and spend my whole life came under attack and I took rifle not to defend it but to "stipp non croats of their citizenship and pay tax to X and not Y"! That sound logic! LMAO! You know, I was thinking while some nice guys like Arakan was trying to kill me and my family why shouldn't I strip all non croats of their citizenship! At that time it looked like bright idea! And while Arkan and his buddies where slaughtering everyone that they caught in nearby occupied croatian villages and I got another idea! Why should I pay tax to X instead of Y so I went fight for that!
@ both forum posters here. Serb and Croat, who surely, from their own point of view are right. But who obviously can't be objective after the terrible things that happened in your country. Agree to disagree. "The Beauty Of Gray" If I told you he was your brother We could reminisce Then you would go about your day If I said you ought to give him some of your water You'd shake your canteen and walk away The perception that divides you from him Is a lie For some reason you never asked why This is not a black and white world You can't afford to believe in your side This is not a black and white world To be alive I say that the colours must swirl And I believe That maybe today We will all get to appreciate The Beauty of Grey This is not a black and white world To be alive I say the colors must swirl And I believe That maybe today We will all get to appreciate The beauty of gray Look into your eyes No daylight New day now
? i dont understand? croat titos boy arkan is somehow the serbs fault? im a nationalist for calling tito a croat?? what was he a martian? again: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log_Revolution where does it mention arms?? oh right its where the "croat" special forces where sent in as for "full support from the JNA to arkan" its just BS and you know it...if JNA gave arkan full support so did croats by letting him out of prison (i like how you play dumb to this AHAHAHAHAHAA) "We don't need likes of you around here." yes you proved that in jasenovac you nationalist... how about you post an ethnic map of croatia before and after the war? i did but you did not accept it (LOL)...how about it eh?... so its serbs fault that croat tito assasinated croat separatists?? LOL... and big deal if clinton let you win against the minority who wanted to stay in yugoslavia...big separatist victory LOL... go ahead and blame milosevic for separatis franjo who was planning this back in the 70-s and earlier looooooong before milosevic came to power LOL theres nothing more insecure than a croat nationalist LOL
Nah, Arakan was serving croat Titos and that's why his slaughtered all those croats during war in Croatia! It's obvious that he was croatian fault! It's incredible how far you are ready to go to defend every single thing done by serbs! Name me one single country on planet earth which wouldn't sent police to deal with people who blockade roads! I dare you to name me just one! And yes, it doesn't matter that there's no mention of arms. Both me and you knows what those guys was carrying on those roadblockades. And it's funny how you simply ignored fact that in same year JNA was send on street of Belgrade to deal with real demonstrators! And we should forgot to mention that we were living in Yugoslavia which special police forces were killing unarmed Albanian demonstrators on Kosovo for years! When come to Albanina you can shoot him no matter is he unarmed demonstrator but when comes to serbian rebel blocking road don't you dare to do anything! source His palamiritary troops had tanks and helicopters. Where did he get that? In supermarket? Or do you want to claim that his troops operated on field side by side JNA just like that? It's incredible that you equaling helping pure criminal to rise and equip one of notorious paramilitary group and his release from prison! Again, if Yougoslavia was so great and JNA were our army too they would eliminate Arkan and not help him out! Your miserable attempts to equal all croats with croatian nazis from WWII are just usual greatoserbian whining each time when they get their ass kicked by croats. Waaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. That was it. Carry on. And again, greatoserbs like you, who claims that my nation doesn't exists and that we are all monsters and that all our politicians since WWII were separatist-nationalsts-terrorist supporters-nazis etc. are not welcome here and we don't need likes of you around here. You get what you ask for. Milan Martic Milan Babic Who said anything like that? As usual you twist facts to fit the into your twisted view of reality. Can you please quote me when did I said anything like that? What you doing all the time is judging people not by their deeds but by their nationality and that´s what makes you nationalist. It doesn't matter which nationality Tito was at all when he was communist dictator! What you trying to say all the time is like Tito was croat so Yugoslavia was heaven for croats and hell for serbs. Again, you keep parroting greatoserbian propaganda that led to disaster of war: Greater Serbian and blueprint for war on Balkan during 90.s: Memorandum of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts But no, Milosevic didn't wanted to make Great Serbia... He wanted status quo... Actually it was great victory, greater than immature greatoserb like you are would ever be ready to admit: Croatian War of Independence Your attempts to show it was like croats majority attacked unarmed serbian minority have no touch with reality whatsoever. It was full scale war between JNA and us. At a start of war all we had was hunting weapons, weapons taken from museums (my first was WWI Mauser rifle) and some rifles smuggled from Hungary. On the other hand JNA had more than 2000 tanks and 300 aircraft and you can only imagine how much they had canons and similar types of weapons. Unlike you want to convince everyone we didn't have any support from Bill Clinton or anyone else from western world. Otherwise it would be logic to, instead of getting arms embargo, get help in arms. It one of things I will never understand and when you talk how west wasn't exactly fair with serbs I always laugh hard! So west was fair with croats letting them to fight with one of strongest armies in Europe without possibility to get weapons! But no, you don't defend Milosevic... Again, I don't see any problem in "separatism" as you call it so would me mind me to explain whats wrong with it? If two married people have bad marriage and don't get along isn't it normal to get divorce and both carry on with their lives? According to your logic if you want to get out of bad marriage it's your fault when other side trys to keep you in by force. That coming from a guy who claiming that croats doesn't exist is at least laughable, isn't it? How come there could be croatian nationalists if there isn't croats at all? Is that you showing massive security once again? LOL
iggysick you have destroyed ATV in every thread. Hats off to you iggysick , you're agreat debater. I am glad your side won the war.
And yes, it doesn't matter that there's no mention of arms. Both me and you knows what those guys was carrying on those roadblockades. just one question about arkan: why did croats let him out of croat prison? this answers all your other questions and weak attempts and painting croat titos boy arkan as the typical serb.... we don't need likes of you around here. said the croat nationalists/separatists if you did not want to fight against your own country (yugoslavia)...you are either for war or against us LOL... yes the serbian academy of arts is to blame not coratian separatism/nationalism/terrorism/plane hiijacking ect ect So west was fair with croats letting them to fight with one of strongest armies in Europe without possibility to get weapons yes you just forget to mention serbia was not in the war and you forget to mention you were fighting our minority in bosnia and kosovo (and you also forget your greedy war with the muslims?) about "bad marriage" i never contested the rights of croats to separate...its croats who contested the right of serbs to do the same... and i never said croats dont exist just that there is no such thing as "croat language" or "bosniak language" or "montenegran language"...croats speak serbian...this does not make them bad people... @ homebiz seo i like you i really do...i would tell you if i dont trust me on this...you are by far the most ignorant person (as far as perception of world politics is concerned) that i have ever come across... everything you post is most amusing...
Your views on your country is quite amusing. I especially like you try to blame Clinton on splitting your country apart. iggysick has destroyed you in the forum and disproved all the nonsense you posted. You and your people are the blame for Yugoslavia collapsing. That region is better off now than before. The only problems now are with the crap coming from your city. Get over it, you guys lost, move on and quit harboring the hate.
yes i understand your logic completely the ones who wanted to keep the country together are to blame and the ones who wanted to split the country up are, somehow, not to blame at all... and the region being better off than before is something not even iggysick will agree on LOL...ok maybe he will hes really really desperate to defend his nationalism and he must have something to show for it, other than a war torn country...
Thanks but credits for it should go to atvking because he fails at it miserably each single time he claim something. Here's perfect example: Really? The smart guy should know when to stop but you continue day after day after day no matter how many times you were confronted with facts that shows something different than your claims. As for being nationalist everyone here can compare what you have posted and what I have posted and decide who is actually nationalist here...
but nobody finds it more amusing than me...if "bosnian"/"croat"/"montenegran" dont speak the same language then you wont be able to understand this will you svi u ex-YU sem slovenaca i makedonaca govore srpski (everybody in ex yugo save for the slovenians and macedonians speak serbian) now if you cant understand the above then you are right...you dont speak serbian you speak croat...but if you understand EVERY word i write or say then theres 2 possible scenarios: 1) the croat language "miraculously" developed the same words/grammar as the "bosniak" and "montenegran" language that , miraculously, ALL sound exactly the same as serbian 2) corats/bosniaks decided to call serbian by another name and they are too insecure in their nationalist hate to admit the obvious... i like how croats made up new words to try and "sound" different from serbs LOL like calling an aeroplane: "oxygen cruiser" AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA ok it loses in the english translation but you know the "new croat" im talking about AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... as for croatia not being a full nation its true...you need a specific language to qualify with for example madeconians (have their specific language) or slovenians (also have their own language) ... tell me if croatia split in 2 countries say croatia and "croatiastan" and the "new croatiastans" declared a "croatiastan" language (LOL) does this a new nation make? (LOL)
Everyone with some dignity would stop after being caught in lie few times but as I can see you have no dignity at all. You are typical representative of greatoserbian puss... errrrr pacifist: lie as much you can and when someone caught you in lie keep with parroting idiotic claims and simply ignore that you have been caught in lie! I DO find it amusing more than you think...
caught in what lie? the one in your head where you speak "croat" ahahahahaha zrakoplov - aeroplane (oxygen cruiser) zrakomlat - helicopter (air beater) (LOL) "zracna luka" (OMG! LOL) any new "croat" words you would like to share? ahahahahahahahaa! do you speak "bosniak" too?
If I were you I would stop making fool of myself day after day after day. Now you wanna discuss languages? You are expert at that too like in the rest of fields you like to talk about? I'm not expert in that field but I'm sure I could sweep floor with you in that field too so it would be wise for you to simply back off. Again, if I were you I would stop making fool of myself each single day.
ok so you dont have a real nation but this does not mean you dont exist...a real nation has its own distinctive language but im sure you already know this...not being a real nation does not imply you are not alive LOL... for example if croatia split in half in to croatia and croatiastan and the new "people" took your language and called it "croatistan language" this does not make them a "nation" or give them a "language"... so my quotes below stand true: 1)i never said croats dont exist AND :2) you dont have a real nation (but this does not take away from my amusement at your declaration of "victory" LOL)
It's useless too discuss something with immature nationalist who was raised to hate nations with whom he shared common history. You were born and raised in hate and you actually believe in BS you have been tough all your life so it's kind useless to present you facts which proves you wrong. If you believe that you are martian you will twist everything to keep believing it and you shows that in almost every single posts. You are not even man enough to stick what you have posted... Grow up and stand behind your own words. According to your idiotic logic there's a lot nations that are not "real" nation but that doesn't matter in this case and I won't discuss that with you because you already had similar discussion with NPT when he destroyed you and yet you repeat same nonsense again! As for not having our own language... Croatian language - read some history kid other than listening greatoserbian BS all the time. You should read some history and stop believing in greatoserbian BS. Grow some balls already and stud up behind words you posted. Stop twisting what you actually wanted to say all the time: You have no spine at all. It is hard isn't it? I mean you were teached all your life how your nation is great, how your nation are unbeatable, how my nation doesn't exists and than you got your ass kicked hard by non existing nation! No wonder you are so desperate to make idiot of yourself day after day after day.
first off youre the nationalist who went to war against the minority our country...im the peaceful guy who never took a weapon against croat or serb or muslim and i went to serbia just for one simple reason: there was no war in serbia... im not a nationalist if i declare myself yugoslavian...im not croat and im not serb i have no desire to kill and fight for any side how evil eh? but LOL how you blame ME ahahahahahhaa! i like how you ignore questions you cant answer LOL...would you consider "croatiastan" a new nation yes or no? (i bet you will ignore this or come up with an unrelated BS comeback) as for my claim about WW2 croatian nazis it stands true anybody can google it...and the quote at the bottom does not say only nazis right? RIGHT? it also says ethnic cleaners/ separatists/ terrorists ect ect...this all stands true...from WW2 until now your politicians have not exactly been friendly to serbs or jews or others to put it mildly... its you that has no spine ive told you several times im not serbian but keep amusing me with your spinelessness...its you who is desperate i just amuse myself with your answers... "croat language" LOLOLOLOL...its most interesting to see how far people will go when they are insecure and desperate to believe...god damn it iggysick man up! confess ....come on cut the BS and admit it: "bosniaks" and croatas and montenegrans speak serbian! what other explanation can you have for everybody speaking the same language? how did tiny croatia influence the serb language or the whole region (answer: it didnt ) ...how did muslims who spoke turk (very different from serbian) make serbian? LOL they did not...this leaves montenegro (lol) ... tell me something (LOL) how painful is it for you to call the serbian language "croat" and keep a str8 face? ahahahahahaa! kako to da ovo mozes da razumes ako nije isti jezik? (how come you can understand this if its not the same language?) zrakomlat (helicopter) ahahahahahha ps ill be the judge if i got my ass kicked or not in a debate but nice try...
You are nationalist when you put your nation above others. Anyone just need to check what you post about other nations and will clearly see that. The fact that you have no guts to fight doesn't mean you don't hate anyone. The people like you are worst than people like Seselj and Arkan was. You are ready to spread hate and add fuel to fire and push others to fight but on the other hand you hide your ass. I like how the guy who ignored like 6-7 times my direct question about JNA supporting Arkan have now guts to call me on ignoring idiotic question! Again showing how spineless you are... How can anyone discuss anything with you if you're going to change what you said each single times someone caught you in lie? Ok, let's try again: prove your claim (and please, don't repeat again: I didn't say all, I said some yadda yadda yadda) Being so desperate to defend serbian war criminals sure doesn't make you serb at all... How spineless you had to be to hide what you really are behind imaginary nation? I've already told you: learn some history and start here: Croatian language The problem with you is that you are so blinded with hate that you simply can't read and accept facts. Read from link I've provided and let me know what you didn't get it and I will explain it to you. As you can see I have time and patience although you are far away from serious debater. The "yugoslavian" way: participant in duel is judge of that duel!