I love how those debating tax on income leave out the fact that the rich have many loop holes which makes them end up paying much less tax than it looks like on paper. Those who have a standard job, depending on the level of income can actually get hit much harder taking the standard deductions than someone who owns their own business making 4x what the other person makes. Study after study I have read shows most business owners at least 'tweak' their deductions to their side. Granted self employed do get hit with self employment tax and others which hurt us big time, I still know that with deductions I get taxed much, much less on standard income tax compared to that of if I had a job. I know many mechanics for instance that pay tons into tools every year, they can not in many cases deduct those tools as it falls under the minimums. They are left with the standard deduction. Yet if self employed, they could deduct those tools off of their bottom line at the end of the year. Hmmm............
Well for the most part. I mean I do believe that there should still be deductions, especially for home owners, and business owners, but the large corporations getting breaks where they pay nothing is dumb. Everybody has to pay something. It just needs to be fair. If there are breaks to go around, I should get the same breaks as Exxon...plain and simple. I also believe that if my tax dollars pay Congressman's health care, then we should be able to get that same health plan for ourselves. Why do I pay theirs, but they can't come up with a plan where everyone can have the same ? (I know different subject) Good point. A friend of mine filed bankruptcy recently and he was amazed that people with multiple homes and boats were allowed to keep all their luxuries under some sort of conservatorship, yet they put him through the ringer on some credit card debt and his condo. We can't suffocate new businesses and there should be some allowance for many of the deductions like that, that make sense. Deducting fuel cost , or tax on a yacht that is owned by a corporation is a slap in the face to all of us. I don't have a yacht, but if I did, I would not expect to get away with that.
I'm not all for forced national health care. I however do get pissed off when some that are lazy and don't work get free health care, when me and my family 'until recently' had no insurance, we paid everything out of our own pocket PLUS paid for those who were lazy to have insurance. Granted some people have no choice, some are disabled, etc. Many however do nothing more than milk the system.
I understand - it seems we're talking about two different things: ending the loophole structure, or a flat tax. Do you support a flat tax, that also ends the loopholes in place?
People who don't work, or don't want to shouldn't get crap. People who want to, but are having a hard time, or have lost it all do to no fault of their own should have some kind of net to help them pull themselves up. When I went to see Obama in Vegas, right around the corner from the stadium, there was a few blocks of people sleeping on the streets. Some are just junkies, screw 'em....but I also saw a lady with a child waiting in line at the salvation army. People who fall behind, but are honestly trying should be able to get some help in this country. There should be no such thing as a single healthy , abled body male, without children, getting government assistance for years. That is just ridiculous. But of course I live in a town where there is work, even if it's not glamorous, but there is work. I know some towns are not doing that well though.
Of course they are based on gross incomes. How could they be calculated otherwise? So how do you justify the 33% that pay NOTHING? Yeah, I saw that. How many of those companies lost money? Agreed! It appears that you are suggesting that we all pay an equal tax rate? If so, I wish it were true.
Well then you have experienced what I'm talking about up close. Good for you. Hatred? Bigotry? Typical grim response. I've tried to hire the homeless. Will they really work for food? Not in my experience. Will they work for $10 an hour? Not the ones I tried to hire. Hell, they make more on the street corner. You'd be a fool to not see that. Hatred? Bigotry? Ha! I laugh at you! The local newspaper did a story one the "homeless" panhandlers that park themselves at busy street corners. The reporter just set and waited and watched, all the time counting the bills that the "bum" was given. Finally a car came buy to take the "homeless" man home. Yes, he had a home. The reporter estimated that our bum had made over $300 that day. Oh gawd, I'm gonna puke. What a noble, nobel man you are Sir Grim. You've kicked your own brother-in-law out of your house, which I am sure that he deserved, don't take me wrong. So tell us, O Noble Grim. Is there any limit to your legendary generosity or are you just comfortable being generous with other people's money?
LOLOLOLOLOL!!! ROFLMAO!!! Whatever happened to "Where some see laziness, I see the other end of the spectrum", Sir Grim??? Holy crap grim. Get your stories straight. Thanks for the laugh!!! MADE MY DAY!
I however can separate that not all homeless are to be lumped into one lump sum like your email that you appear to be proud of and stand behind does. You are the fool. Many are homeless at this current moment because they lost their homes. Many have no problem working, just because some prefer to live on the streets and not work does not mean all of them do. You laugh at me, now that's funny. I bet you laugh at the homeless as well. You continue to lump a fews actions into that of them all. In this instance you have a crook and not a homeless person, sad you can not see the difference. I don't see black and white, which you obviously do. You only see the bad apples in the situation, where I understand there is both ends of the spectrum. It's honestly quite sad that you're this deficient to say the least. Actually my wife kicked her own brother out of our house as he was on the bad apple spectrum of 'homeless' He brought drugs into our house, he refused to get a job. Not all of them are that way, you do understand this do you not? Like talking out of your ass much? Where do I state I like being 'generous' with my own money or others anywhere? Would you get your head out of your ass and realize there are some who milk the system and there are others who do not milk the system? I understand this key difference, you however honestly do not appear to be able to grasp that reality.
Oh, Sir Grim. This is too good!!! Hahahahahahaha!!! "Where some see laziness, I see the other end of the spectrum" This is Perfect. Hahahahahahaha!!! Stop it your killing me!!! You talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk. So what do you do in your spare time Sir Grim? Do you just sit around and get pissed while the lazy get their free health care and you don't? Maybe you just sit around and feel sorry for those poor homeless few, while all the rest are fleecing the system. Then you come on here and act all holy and benevolent. That's rich! Freakin' hilarious is what it is. It was a question Sir Grim. Since you seem to want to claim the high road here, please share with us. Actually it appears once again that you are just all talk. Oh benevolent one, can it be so? Wouldst thou honestly defame others whilst doing so little thyself? Hahahahahahaha!!!
You're oh so funny. You are totally missing the point. You have your head stuck up your ass so far that you only see bad. I look at the email you posted and understand there are those who abuse the system, I however also understand there are those who have no choice. That is the other end of the spectrum I am speaking of, yet you have the nerve to laugh which just shows the world what a uncaring, ignorant person you honestly are. How so? Simply because I understand both sides, there being both those abusing the system and those who truly need help? I'm not preaching to do anything, far from it. The only thing I am is understanding there is more to it than all homeless being lazy, which it appears you still do not understand. Head stuck up ass syndrome much. You do understand that I see both sides of the issue and not just one do you not? Usually in my free time I workout, spend time with my family, you know the normal things. Occasionally however I have to point out when people are out of touch with reality such as is the case now. I never said I should get free health care now did I? It's ok for you to be against all who are homeless, but it's not ok for me to be logical and understand there are those who need help, and those who milk the system. Are you serious? You do understand you are coming off like a total idiot do you not? Oh yes the homeless who are fleecing the system, the one you brought up was a criminal not homeless. Many just want to be left alone and do not ask for a dime from others. Many others lost their homes, who would like nothing more than to get back to where they were, in a good job, living in a home. Of course their are some who milk the system, just as their are some at jobs who milk the system. You are coming off totally as against homeless, those who are poor, all the while not understanding that some do need help. Are you honestly this clueless? Would you cut the 'Sir Grim' shit out, you are coming off even more childish and ignorant than usual. Would you get your head out of your ass or is there not enough Vaseline in the free world? Understanding the difference from those who need help, to those who do not need help. Not being a hateful shithead like yourself, is not stating I do anything above anyone else for the homeless. It's simply not being hateful of them, being understanding, knowing the facts, items that elude you. BTW I do give to charity, I actually teach my son yearly by giving him money to give to charity among other items. What I do however is not even relevant to simply being understanding, knowing facts, and not being a hate filled ignorant individual like yourself. Now if you're done making yourself look like an ass clown, I'd prefer to have an intelligent conversation with someone who actually has an open mind and who does not have to remove their head from their ass.
Pardon me Sir Grim, I'm sorry. I just had to take a break. I gotta tell ya, those tears were just streaming down my face! That nobleman stuff just cracks me up! It's really not my place to say this, since you are now on the path to ascension, but you should probably stop with that "head up your ass" stuff. I mean, really... Once you've used it a couple of times it gets kind of old and you become a bit of a bore. Yeah, I know, you're a bit off your game, but you're still a smart guy. Get some new material. This is a family friendly board after all. Perhaps a few less curse words would further that benevolent image you work so hard to portray. Now please pardon me for speaking so boldly, Sir Grim. While you may be the most noble of the noble and the most holy of holy on this board, it still just looks like talk from where I'm sitting. I've tried to hire the homeless on several occaision, but they just don't want to work. Can you say that you have done the same? No, I don't think so. 100% of the homeless that I have spoken with were unwilling to work, even if it meant that they would eat very well for a few days maybe even a week. And yet, somehow, where I can only see laziness, you see the other end of the spectrum. (BTW that is just classic! These words are destined for immortality!!!) Now is this some kind of personal observation or did you just read about it from your comfy little computer desk? Is there somewhere in the Constitution somewhere that guarantees the homeless free housing? Maybe you would know where is says that you have the right to stick your fingers in my wallet to pay for your benevolence? No I didn't think so. So where does that leave you, Sir Grim? Try setting a good example for the bigotted and the hateful. Lead us to the path of righteousness, Sir Grim. Put your money where your mouth is and your ministry will flourish. Right now it looks like your generousity is a little lacking and that you are really only comfortable spending other people's money in your pursuit of Sainthood.
I wont stop with 'head up your ass' as it's obviously stuck there pretty damn securely. Where did I say the homeless deserved or should have free housing for starters? Understanding the problem and FACTS is all I have done, yet you have attempted to twist it into something it is not. I am not saying I am above anyone else on my views, simply that I look at the facts of the situation. Unlike you who has his head so far stuck up his ass it's not even a joke. You know what's the saddest part? You think that you're actually making good points. When in fact all you're doing is lying, using facts that do not exist and not much else. Even if all homeless do not want to work, like you try to claim. Not all homeless even want anything from you or me. Many just want to be left alone. I forgot facts and understanding of the actual circumstance at hand scares people like you.
Sir Grim, the noble protector of the slighted, the prince of "Where did I say?" That was actually a pretty weak response. I expected better. If "head up your ass" is all you've brought to the table, I suppose it will have to do. I'm just telling you that you're not nearly as good as you used to be. Actually, Sir Grim, I have made no points at all, but I have pushed your buttons and played you like the lame ass fiddle that you are. Come now O noble one, give us another chorus of "cry and whine", just to get the crowd going. "Where did I say" is a two sided sword, Sir Grim. "Where did I say" that I was against the homeless? You can cry and whine about what I didn't say but you will only look more ridiculous than you do right now. Hell, anyone that doesn't post a disclaimer is an open invitation for you to spew your pathetic crap. Now you sit there and hide behind your little keyboard, hiding your jealosy, all the while bitching and whining because the lazy get their free health care and you don't. Then you pretend that you don't want the freebies and all. "I'm just sayin'..." Yeah, right! You can't have it both ways, O noble one, unless you just like to hear yourself bitch and whine. The system favors the lazy. (yeah, yeah, but you only see the other side of the spectrum ) But really, there's no reason for your jealousy. Just vote for the Obamessiah. He will grant you all the free health care that you desire.
Oh so putting words into people's mouths that they did not say is a correct method of debating in your world is it? You've brought nothing more than untruths and twists. You being cocky does not make you nearly as good as you believe. You have played nothing, you have done nothing more than try to say I have claimed things I have not. You have lumped all homeless to be lazy and not willing to work. I forget facts scare you. Read your posts, it's pretty obvious you believe all homeless are lazy and do not wish to work. Hell even with disclaimers you continue to try to change words into things they are not, creating fiction that was never even posted. I'm 'hiding' oh please, I have no need to hide. 'Jealousy' again you are flat out lying, never did I say I wanted or expected free health care. I never said I wanted 'freebies' do you like lying? Is that all you're capable of? I mean seriously is that all you have in you? I am not trying to have it both ways, I unlike you see the entire picture, you however only see black and white. You appear to only think all homeless are lazy and deserve to be where they are. When did I say the system favors the lazy? More lies? I have stated and will state again there are those who milk the system, just as their are those who milk the system at their work place. Those are the people I have a problem with, not all homeless 'unlike you' not all on state aid, not all who work, but those who milk the system. I do not desire free health care, never said I do. I have a problem paying for health care for those who are lazy and have no reason they can not work. I am not voting for Obama, never had a plan to. Do you have any rational thought, or can you only make up lies and spew the shit you continue to spew? Seriously, your posts are simply ridiculous. Filled with lies, but not much more.
Sir Grim, there you go again. "Where did I say" that all homeless are lazy and unwilling to work? Enough of your lies. Your halo is beginning to tarnish. Oh, wise one, O benevolent protector of the downtrodden. You "appear" to be jealous of those getting free health care. Since you again insist upon the "Where did I say" defense, then let me ask, "Where did I say" "all homeless are lazy and deserve to be where they are." Time to put up or shut up. Ha! "Where did I say" cuts both ways. Looks like you can dish it out but you can't take it. Hahahahaha!!! I laugh at you. What's that matter Sir Grim, can't handle your own words being thrown back into your face? You can deny jealousy all you want, but I gotta tell ya', when you bitch about paying medical bills and bitch about the "lazy" getting free health care at the same time, it looks kinda bad. Your blessed Obama can make all those worries go away. It's hilarious that you vote the same way that you post. No doubt that you will find some third party candidate to vote for, knowing full well that your vote will count for nothing. This will create a nice little hole for you to hide in and throw rocks from, no matter who wins. No doubt you will claim some ridiculous moral superiority because you didn't "sell" your vote to the "lesser of two evils". Convenient of you to forget that in a two party system, you only vote for or against the winner. Now pick yourself up off the floor and try this again. This time when you accuse me, please back up your lame accusations with a quote, before you look like the village idiot again.
Lets see... The email you decided to put in sure appears to conclude that. Your entire premise of arguing with me here is I see there being those who do not ask to be where they are and are willing to work, and those who are to lazy to work as well. If you don't believe they are all to lazy why don't you come over to the side of reality, instead of continuing to beat the drum that sure appears you believe they are to lazy to work. Again arguing with me about the facts, the facts that not all are to lazy to work, trying to bring a case that they wont work. But sure you have not said as much. Then you bring up a criminal, not a homeless person in your anti homeless agenda. Read above. I never inferred even remotely to what you are claiming, yet you sure have to what I have stated about you. If they had some basis in reality you could use them, too bad for you they don't. I know you're not smart enough to see that though, I feel sorry for you. Like lying again? I am obviously stating I do not like paying for those who are milking the system, who do not need help. Nothing 'bad' in it, sorry it doesn't state what you claim it to be. Yet again, get this through your thick undeveloped skull. I DO NOT support Obama and never have! Oh nice way to bring up parts of what I have already stated to act like you know me so well. Standing up for ones principles when both parties suck is the right thing to do. Sorry you're trapped into supporting 1 side or the other, the same vacuum of power that has been killing this nation for generations. Thanks for lying yet again though, above you continue to claim I support Obama 'a lie' but then go to this? Wow, are you actually this idiotic? Don't answer that, no need. You've got to be kidding me. You have the nerve to call me the village idiot? That's like George W Bush calling Einstein a moron.