Islam,The Religion of Peace: Thread to remove misconceptions!

I had some questions regarding this post...we'll take it step-by-step.

Yet the Qu'ran also has verses such as:
9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

8:39 So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).

8:65 O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.

48:16 Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: 'You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture.

Considering the 4 passages here contradict the one you posted, I don't think it's fair to say the "proof" you submitted is sufficient.

Rocket science? Maybe not...but perhaps some social science would be in order. Statistically, homosexuality comprises about 10% of the population. Researchers believe this percentage has remained relatively stable throughout history. Homosexuality has always been the minority of the population, and not a significant enough percentage to "end humanity". Also, if your religion has advocated the death of homosexuals for over 1400 years, why are there still homosexuals? Your method of prevention doesn't seem to be working.

This response is full of assumptions. First, there is no guarantee adultery will result in divorce. Second, you infer the best environment to raise a child in is the "traditional" family unit of mother, father, and kids. However, this is not necessarily the case. The "traditional" family unit does not exist...familial norms have changed over time to adapt to the society. Also, researchers have found the most important factor in the development of children is a loving environment (regardless of number and/or gender of those raising the child), and economic factors. Third, a negative public opinion of adultery in the west is a far cry from stoning someone to death for it.

No, it doesn't.

 

There are not as many homosexuals in the Islamic areas of the middle east.

 

But how do you really know? If the publicly recognized punishment for being homosexual is death, it's probably in one's best interest to stay in the closet in those locals.

 

They may be rivals in many aspects, but it seems that some Christians share some of the "opinions" of the Muslim and even wish their leaders adopted the same "rules"

 

Mr F - If you really want people to see your religion as the "religion of peace" and then calmly rationalize a death penalty for homosexuals, I withdraw anything I said that supports the premise of this thread.

"Robianity" anyone?
Being a huge fan of homosexuality isnt in my nature, but I know many of 'em and they're fine individuals with a practice I don't like, that's all. If I killed everyone that whose practices I don't especially approve we wouldn't have Democrats, lawyers, or telemarketers... and I'm pretty sure the people that do billing at my electric company would be extinct too. Maybe I oughta start my own religion.

If you want to practice a peaceful religion, pick one that doesnt involve murdering those you don't like. It'll be a lot easier to support.

 

That's true. If punishment is death I guess the closet would be the best option.

 

Ok, Guys there are a lot of posts to answer, so i cannot quote each one but instead i can give you aome general answers that should answer what i have read in the posts above:

The punishments that i mentioned are the punishments according to the Quran and the hadeeth, so like them or not, Islam teaches them. Most rules are not liked by the general public, but at the same time if you look at the number of people who are put to death by the government in a Country where Islamic Law (Shariah) exists, Saudi Arabia probably the only Country that does so, is far less compared to the number of people being killed in the west by murderers and rapers. The divorce rate and the number of second degree murders as a result of an extra-marital affair is a proof in its self. The crime rate in Saudi Arabia is the lowest in the world! I have lived in Saudi Arabia, and once my Brother dropped his cell-phone which was worth a lot in a cab, the cab driver later on went to the contacts in the phone found my father's number and said i have your son's phone where should i come to give it, after my father explained the address to him he came and gave us the sell phone back instead of selling it off and making some good money. That is the greatness that Islam teaches,at the same time, over time a lot of the rules in Saudi Arabia are moving away from the teachings of Islam if this continues the peace and safety in Saudi Arabia will too finish. I once forgot to lock the doors of my House in Riyadh and went on a vacation for 2 weeks when i was back the house was untouched.
These are just some examples the facts prove it, and i have a had a personal experience.

You cannot hold a religion responsible if a group of its followers do not obey what it teaches, secondly for those who say homosexuals have a place in society, why is it that people in the west oppose it? Who dont really have a religious duty, people who are a threat to the existence of humans should not have a place in society regardless of what ever your personal point of view is.


The benefits significantly outweigh the harms of these strict rules that have been set.

What i do not understand is that when it comes to a Muslim that does it wrong his/her religion is blamed, but when those American Soldiers (Majority Christian or Jewish) then religion is not taken into account. When certain underground pressure groups do things against the morals of society there religion is NOT taken into account.

Again i repeat the benefits significantly outweigh the harms of these strict rules that have been set.

This is one more thing that affirms the greatness of Islam.

Thank you

 

That's probably because many of them are [or claim to be] religiously motivated. Take the example of all those honour killings. Most soldiers don't kill because their religion told em so, just because it's their duty, their government's orders, protecting fellow countrymen's interest and so on. Crusaders are a thing of the past.

Huh. People will come to their own conclusions even if you tell them otherwise.

 

How are gays a threat to the existance of humans?

 

10% is a HUGE over exaggeration...there are over one billion muslims to say 100 million of them are radical is simply not true...

your 9/11 report said alqaida needed 30million$/year for operational expenses this sum should give you a reasonable estimate of how many people you can fund with a budget not big enough for a formula 1 team to compete...or 1 US fighter...

even if it was 1 million, and its not, this would be 0.1% of the total muslim population and at alquaidas"budget" of less than 3 million/month this comes to 3$ for every "Terrorist" so the real figure is substantially less than what you may think...islam is hugely misrepresented by the media...

 

Let take your post step by step;

The first verse you mentioned:

1. Verse from Surah Taubah

The following verse from Surah Taubah is very often quoted by critics of Islam, to show that Islam promotes violence, bloodshed and brutality:

"Kill the mushriqeen (pagans, kafirs) where ever you find them."

[Al-Qur'an 9:5]

2. Context of verse is during battlefield

Critics of Islam actually quote this verse out of context. In order to understand the context, we need to read from verse 1 of this surah. It says that there was a peace treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriqs (pagans) of Makkah. This treaty was violated by the Mushriqs of Makkah. A period of four months was given to the Mushriqs of Makkah to make amends. Otherwise war would be declared against them. Verse 5 of Surah Taubah says:

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most merciful."

[Al-Qur'an 9:5]

This verse is quoted during a battle.


3. Example of war between America and Vietnam

We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: "Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them". Today if I say that the American President said, "Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them" without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war.

4. Verse 9:5 quoted to boost morale of Muslims during battle

Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 the Qur'an says, "Kill the Mushriqs where ever you find them", during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Qur'an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don't be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them.

5. Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer

Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed. It says:

"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum,grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge."

[Al-Qur'an 9:6]

The Qur'an not only says that a Mushriq seeking asylum during the battle should be granted refuge, but also that he should be escorted to a secure place. In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don't just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security?

This is exactly what Allah (swt) says in the Glorious Qur'an to promote peace in the world.

The second verse you mentioned:

Again it taken out of context and the translation is wrong

Here is a translation of the verses before it and after it to show what it is,
below mentioned are three translations of each verse by three different translators:

YUSUFALI: The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who disbelieve spend their wealth in order that they may debar (men) from the way of Allah. They will spend it, then it will become an anguish for them, then they will be conquered. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto hell,
SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (people) from the way of Allah; so they shall spend it, then it shall be to them an intense regret, then they shall be overcome; and those who disbelieve shall be driven together to hell.

008.037
YUSUFALI: In order that Allah may separate the impure from the pure, put the impure, one on another, heap them together, and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost.
PICKTHAL: That Allah may separate the wicked from the good, The wicked will He place piece upon piece, and heap them all together, and consign them unto hell. Such verily are the losers.
SHAKIR: That Allah might separate the impure from the good, and put the impure, some of it upon the other, and pile it up together, then cast it into hell; these it is that are the losers.

008.038
YUSUFALI: Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).
PICKTHAL: Tell those who disbelieve that if they cease (from persecution of believers) that which is past will be forgiven them; but if they return (thereto) then the example of the men of old hath already gone (before them, for a warning).
SHAKIR: Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.

008.039
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

008.040
YUSUFALI: If they refuse, be sure that Allah is your Protector - the best to protect and the best to help.
PICKTHAL: And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Befriender - a Transcendent Patron, a Transcendent Helper!
SHAKIR: And if they turn back, then know that Allah is your Patron; most excellent is the Patron and most excellent the Helper.

The third verse you mentioned:

Which is again taken out of context:
Verses before and after:

008.059
YUSUFALI: Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them).
PICKTHAL: And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.
SHAKIR: And let not those who disbelieve think that they shall come in first; surely they will not escape.

008.060
YUSUFALI: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
PICKTHAL: Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.
SHAKIR: And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.

008.061
YUSUFALI: But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
PICKTHAL: And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, even He, is the Hearer, the Knower.
SHAKIR: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

008.062
YUSUFALI: Should they intend to deceive thee,- verily Allah sufficeth thee: He it is That hath strengthened thee with His aid and with (the company of) the Believers;
PICKTHAL: And if they would deceive thee, then lo! Allah is Sufficient for thee. He it is Who supporteth thee with His help and with the believers,
SHAKIR: And if they intend to deceive you-- then surely Allah is sufficient for you; He it is Who strengthened you with His help and with the believers

008.063
YUSUFALI: And (moreover) He hath put affection between their hearts: not if thou hadst spent all that is in the earth, couldst thou have produced that affection, but Allah hath done it: for He is Exalted in might, Wise.
PICKTHAL: And (as for the believers) hath attuned their hearts. If thou hadst spent all that is in the earth thou couldst not have attuned their hearts, but Allah hath attuned them. Lo! He is Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: And united their hearts; had you spent all that is in the earth, you could not have united their hearts, but Allah united them; surely He is Mighty, Wise.

008.064
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! sufficient unto thee is Allah,- (unto thee) and unto those who follow thee among the Believers.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Allah is Sufficient for thee and those who follow thee of the believers.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! Allah is sufficient for you and (for) such of the believers as follow you.

008.065
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

008.066
YUSUFALI: For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah: for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.
PICKTHAL: Now hath Allah lightened your burden, for He knoweth that there is weakness in you. So if there be of you a steadfast hundred they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a thousand (steadfast) they shall overcome two thousand by permission of Allah. Allah is with the steadfast.
SHAKIR: For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you; so if there are a hundred patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah's permission, and Allah is with the patient.

The 4rth Verse:
The translation is below and yes Allah will punish those who disobey:

fight) against a people given to vehement war: then shall ye fight, or they shall submit. Then if ye show obedience, Allah will grant you a goodly reward, but if ye turn back as ye did before, He will punish you with a grievous Penalty."
PICKTHAL: Say unto those of the wandering Arabs who were left behind: Ye will be called against a folk of mighty prowess, to fight them until they surrender; and if ye obey, Allah will give you a fair reward; but if ye turn away as ye did turn away before, He will punish you with a painful doom.
SHAKIR: Say to those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind: You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit; then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward; and if you turn back as you turned back before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.

That is the reply to all 4 verses.

If you think that something that people criticize as if it is a crime and cannot prove it to be wrong and it based on solid facts, is not somthing great than that is your point of view. If you were to have a law in the country that you live in and you dont like it but it is not wrong and the facts and figures show that it is extremely effective and it is very just then i would say that law is great.

Hope i answered what you asked,

Allah Knows Best.

 

I'm a hostile crowd because he called U.S. soldiers "the real terrorists" in another thread before he started this one.
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=9243473#post9243473

That statement doesn't sound to me like he's willing to hold his fellow muslims accountable.

 

On the whole Islam is a good religion with decent moral teachings but there are too many radicals that take the teachings a bit too far. I do not know of any other religion in which the teachings are perverted to the degree that Islam is.

 

Well if you saw that picture and you didnt realize that the American soldiers are killing innocent children, then i guess you are not a fair judge.

When it comes to us punishing people for the wrong doings then you remember "human rights" giving everybody a chance. But when it comes to killing of an innocent child by an american soldier then you say that the soldier is innocent. It shows your double standards! Far more lives have been lost in the wars fighting terrorism than terrorism itself.

I am trying to answer questions without harming anyone's feelings, but when people make such comments they should reconsider.

 

@ mrfazee answer these two questions.

 

Islam is against abortion as islam believes every human should be given a chance to live if he/she deserves it. As far as the punishment for abortion i am not aware of any prescribed punishment but i will let you know once i do some research on it.

For Homosexuals, no one except the government with a full court bench has the right to put a homosexual to death, Islam DOES NOT given any one the right to take the law into his/her own hands. If the homosexual (regardless of his/her religion is living in a country where the shariah is implemented and he/she has committed such an act on a Muslim land with shariah implemented, then after having sufficient proof the government can order him to be put to death.

I hope i answered your questions.

 

Your entire argument for murdering them is based on the premise that they are a threat to the existence of humans. Simply false. Sure, if everyone were gay there wouldnt be any reproduction, but last time I checked honosexuality wasnt an infectious disease and can't be caught by drinking from the same glass. So basically it just boils down to killing someone because you dont like their actions which do not harm you in any way.

Murdering a small section of the population in exchange for getting my cell phone returned by cab drivers isn't a trade I'd be prepared to make. As for leaving your door unlocked... I seldom lock mine at all. Don't know if thats because folks in Texas are inherently honest or just because everyone living around me is known to be heavily armed and pretty good shots. Either's possible I guess.

Anyway, when it comes to the "peaceful religion" thing, calmly defending the practice of murdering those whose sexual habits you dont like is a bit of a deal-breaker.

 

That sounds reasonable enough (the law is the law). Post more info when you research the abortion penalty.

 

This thread is not so much about proving how peaceful Islam is to everyone but rather justifying how violent it is toward some.

Islam to me is like homosexuality in that I don't care what you do to yourself in your own home. When one tries to force its rules on everyone, even those who do not accept or want to live by them, I have a problem. In that sense I find homosexuality much less troublesome than I find Islam.

So you would have no problem with a law that said it was illegal to own a gun? Or a law that said it was illegal to marry someone of a different race? Or that it was illegal to read the bible?

Right, because the "law is the law"

You think that murder is okay because some idiot calls it a law?

 

Innocent's occasionally die in the war against terrorism. That's unfortunate. But there would be no war against terrorism if there was no terrorism. Terrorism is the root and it is what should be eliminated. Then there would be no need for a war on terror. So the best way to stop the war on terror is to eliminate and help in eliminating terrorism. The objective of the war on terror is not killing innocent women and children, but terrorism aims and works to kill innocent civilians.

What about the shia-sunni clashes that routinely result in deaths. [You wouldn't say that isn't religiously motivated, would you? ] Christian sects do have disagreements and tensions, but nobody generally dies.