The Sarah Palin Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by stOx, Aug 31, 2008.

  1. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #621
    for me it is that i want to make sure that an end to infulence of neocons and Christians in politics is reached asap
    and i am not looking forward to a conflict with Russia.
    I do not want another war.
    so this leaves me no choice
    you vote write in RP, No problem for me.
    Also Obama and RP have done something that will eventually move the power back to the people and that is Internet financing. That alone is a good reason to vote Obama to enhance that power.
    RP has refused to endorse Mcsame.Think about it.
     
    pizzaman, Sep 13, 2008 IP
  2. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #622
    Guerilla, I'd mirror Hmansfield, and ask where you're getting your information that Obama and McCain's voting records iare the same. On some key votes, yes - and, yes, those votes seriously undermined my support for him, because they broke faith on some pretty important things to me - but to say they really hold no difference in their record, well, I don't see it. It's cumbersome, but Vote Smart alone shows a very different picture. Did you have a source for this?:

    As to what has Obama accomplished, aside from my admiration for his taking a $13,000/yr job to do the right thing in community service, achieving the head of the Harvard Law review (and honor as the nation's top law student while at Harvard law; I came from academia, and admire academic stones, personally), eschewing a certain wildly prosperous career in corporate law on his Harvard law school coming out party in order to practice law he could believe in, his legislative record is not an empty book, though many have tried to paint it so.*** On some pretty key things, to me, to include his extensive work on healthcare in Illinois (e.g., his work in expanding healthcare coverage for impoverished families - to include KidsCare, which enabled something like 80,000 children to acquire healthcare, when they were previously completely unprovided for; something close to my heart, actually), welfare reform in Illinois, ethics and lobbying reform, and many other things, he's been an active and effective legislator.

    All of which I do understand you would find anathema, really, coming from your philosophy. But I can't agree with you that he's done nothing.

    ***I don't include you here, Guerilla. If I understand you properly, you wouldn't discount legislative work as "nothing"; you would discount it as counterproductive to societal welfare, small "w," and so it's understandable you wouldn't give any weight to legislative efforts. Do I have you right?
     
    northpointaiki, Sep 13, 2008 IP
  3. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #623
    Hunh? Obama has made threats against Iran and Pakistan. Obama is the one who said he would do what Bush has now done. Conducted attacks inside Pakistan without Pakistani consent.

    If you are anti-war, there is no way in good conscience you can vote Obama after his AIPAC speech.

    Obama took a lot of dirty money from special interests. Obama hired fund raising bundlers, Paul did it just on his message alone. What is Obama's message anyway? What has his votes in the Senate represented?

    Please never put Obama and Paul in the same sentence. Paul has been pushing peace and civil liberties for 30 years in Congress. He runs to NOT be President, Obama is a junior Senator with a lousy record, a vague platform and is set on leading the world, when he can't even articulate a clear vision or philosophical underpinning to his policies, just positions of political convenience.

    RP has also refused to endorse Obama, Barr, Baldwin, Nader or McKinney. Stop hiding behind McCain and Palin attacks. I am still waiting for an explanation of what Obama has DONE in his career to deserve the Presidency.
     
    guerilla, Sep 13, 2008 IP
  4. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #624
    He will Talk and the world has a better impression of him. better chance for plan A to work,
    Mcsame has become an ideological reckless dangerous man.
    pugs have to lose. I do not want to see secretary of defense Paul the mad man wolfowitz.
     
    pizzaman, Sep 13, 2008 IP
  5. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #625
    Yes, he talks a great game. So did Bush in 2000.

    Too bad his votes don't line up with his talk?
     
    guerilla, Sep 13, 2008 IP
  6. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #626
    but with somewhat different advisers and political pressures
    Mcsame is another bush with the exact same advisers and political pressures
    the rest are distraction
    can you deal with simple facts my friend.
     
    pizzaman, Sep 13, 2008 IP
  7. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #627
    NPT, I definitely do not want to get into it with you, so if my answers aren't satisfactory, then I'm asking for your pardon up front, because I have no desire to return to what was before at all.

    The key votes matter. As Paul laid out at his press conference on Wednesday, there are 4 key issues facing the candidates.

    1. War
    2. Civil LIberties
    3. Debt
    4. Monetary Policy / FED

    Obama fails all 4, as does McCain. Do I have the specific votes, absolutely not. I could care less about this horserace, the votes that matter are the ones I hear about, like Obama backpeddling on his promise about FISA, or his continued support of the Patriot Act, or his voting for deficit spending, and continued support (now enlarged to expanding support) for the wars.

    Here is Paul's statement.

    Here are the 4 Planks that he got the Libertarian, Constitution, Green and Independent Parties to agree to universally (a first in politics). That's Barr, Baldwin, McKinney and Nader. He and Nader appeared on CNN later that day, heroic in the face of the babbling moron Wolf Blitzer.

    Fair enough, respect the answer for sure. The last part I disagree with, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

    You're a lot smarter than the average bear. You bother to check into this stuff. I'm wondering if the rest of his supporters could provide an answer like this. I know Zibblu dodged providing an answer for months to the same set of queries. It's unreasonable to expect perfect knowledge, but when people start eroto-fantasizing about what Obama will do, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to base that in reality, not in his assumed godhood.

    Short answer, no. It is counter-productive to add more laws, more taxes, more exceptions, more redistruibutionism, more troops, more guns, more bombs, more departments, more regulation, more monopoly power, more distance between the people and their rulers, more secrets, more debt, more theft, more killing, more injustice, more inflation etc.

    It is possible to somewhat-productively legislate for lower or no taxes, for more personal liberty, for more property rights, for more freedom.

    It's just that the only person who does that, is Ron Paul. Hopefully after the election, he will have 2 or 3 sidekicks to vote with him.

    God, I spent an hour answering posts tonight. I forgot how unproductive this is.
     
    guerilla, Sep 13, 2008 IP
  8. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #628
    You keep shifting the debate to McCain, unable to discuss Obama with me.

    Which is fine, I want to sleep. It's obvious to me you are obsessed with either hating the Republican (understandable), obsessed with Obama mania (not understandable) or a combination of the two.

    But I think it is sad, that instead of voting for a principled antiwar candidate, you will be voting for Obama, who is more likely to win, but much more likely to betray you based upon his voting record and shifting rhetoric.

    Good night.
     
    guerilla, Sep 13, 2008 IP
  9. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #629
    The republican party is infected with two parasite like group. Neocons and Christians.
    We have seen how they effect the politics.
    Just listen to Mcsame talking about Georgia. I don't want that.
    Mcsame has left me no choice but to support Obama.
    Mccain is no longer around. Just checkout the links in my signature
     
    pizzaman, Sep 13, 2008 IP
  10. gradedstakes.com

    gradedstakes.com Peon

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    #630
    You seem to have some serious issues with Christians. The large majority of this nation is Christian, and I don't see anything wrong with teaching creationism alongside the "big bang" theory. Why are you so upset with Christianity?
     
    gradedstakes.com, Sep 13, 2008 IP
  11. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #631
    Write that line but instead of "Christian" end it with "Atheists", "Jews", "Muslims", or any other belief structure... it'd elicit howls about religious bigotry.
    Sometimes what you say tells more about you than about the target.
     
    robjones, Sep 14, 2008 IP
  12. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #632
    I oppose the "Christian" political movement not Christianity as a religion. "christian" is a political movement named after a religion, to get respectability and support. Change its name and the ideology won't survive a day.
    Now lets see if they can answer my abortion since they are so wild on that subject.
     
    pizzaman, Sep 14, 2008 IP
  13. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #633
    The problem i have with christianity, Since you asked, (besides it being complete shit) is that it has been hijacked by every low life, deceitful coward who either wants justification for a war or a reason to lie to children. The problem i have with creation in general is that it's a primitive myth and has no place in science class. Even if america was 100% christian creation still would not be a science and would still not have a place in a science class, Because things don't become a "science" based on how many people have been tricked into believing it. But by all means, Feel free to do the research, devise the experiments, Publish your results, have your findings peer reviewed and have it accepted as a science. until then, keep it to yourself and more importantly, out of science classes.
     
    stOx, Sep 14, 2008 IP
  14. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #634
    Guerilla, I'd like to say up front as well, I don't want to return to where we were either. I'm glad for where we've come, and would like it to stay, as well. I never said this - but in my own stubbornness and ego, I never credited you properly for bringing me to think more on the monetary theories behind much of your reasoning, and that alone has been a tremendous reward. In a word, thanks. You've brought a good deal of food for thought.
     
    northpointaiki, Sep 14, 2008 IP
  15. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #635
    How is McCain any better on 'Civil Liberties' both sides want to chip away at constitutional rights one way or another.

    Both choices absolutely suck.

    BTW what did she really do as mayor. I hear all this talk about experience, yet the record and facts show anything but.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26695078

    Ahh and then as Governor of a state with less population than many large cities, which is notorious for feeding off the federal government.

    http://www.enhancegenetics.com/vche...a-na-palinstyle8-2008sep08%2C0%2C855616.story

     
    GRIM, Sep 14, 2008 IP
  16. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #636
    Don't know what answer they'd have, but I'm sure many here would have voted for it.
     
    robjones, Sep 14, 2008 IP
  17. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #637
    lol so what i made a mistake and forgot to say abortion question. But your answer shows how you feel about my posts, why is it so hard for you to see the real side of Mcsame. why do you insist of tricking people to vote for Mcsame. Does the honor mean anything to Mcsame camp
    problem is that all the pugs have to offer is this kind of bs designed to trick people into voting for them
    now check this out.
    Tucker Bounds on Falin's National Security Experience
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYiw_y2qDI
     
    pizzaman, Sep 14, 2008 IP
  18. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #638
    Can you please refer to the candidates by their actual name?
     
    GRIM, Sep 14, 2008 IP
  19. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #639
    That is not quite accurate, but no surprise you would spin it that way. RP has specifically urged that people vote for any of the fringe candidates - Baldwin, Nader or McKinney and not vote for McCain or Obama. While he has not endorsed an individual candidate he has endorsed the group of small party candidates. Oh yeah, and you left out that RP has declined McCain's request for an endorsement. Are you letting the former Republican in you come out to play?
     
    browntwn, Sep 14, 2008 IP
  20. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #640
    I really did not want to dishonor Sen.McCain by calling this old desperate canddidate of the republican party by calling him by the same name.
    Failin just says it all.
    do you see how he lies about Obama in his ads
    but i will stop until they start with some bs issue to attack Obama.
     
    pizzaman, Sep 14, 2008 IP