John Mcain Or Barack Obama ~~ Who will you vote?

No, I don't think you have seen McCain claim that he wants to be like Bush.

Good for you. One less thing you have to think about. The time may come when the Democrats choose a candidate that is so far removed from your ideals and principles that you will give another candidate a look. That's all I could ever ask for.

I see plenty of stupid Republican candidates that I don't want to vote for, especially at the state and local levels. Someday there may be a Democrat that makes sense to me.

 

For the record, if it wasn't for 'us', your name would be Searing Eagle and you'd be running around half-naked chasing bisons with a bow-and-arrow. Either that, or you'd be in Europe speaking German along with the rest of us. Who are you, talking 'us' when it comes to the second world war; it's your (grand)fathers who freed Europe from repression, not you. Claiming credit for it shows a complete utter lack of understanding and respect for what your ancestors did; THEY freed Europe and THEY deserve all praise and credit. All YOU did is eat McDonald's into being the second largest employer in the world and, the last eight years, turned many of your countrymen's pride of being American into shame.

Having said that, it would definately serve you well to vote Obama. America may still be the world's number one, but the tides of might are shifting more rapidly than ever. In my opinion, what the US needs is a foreign policy that actually takes foreign nations into account. As a starter, it would be helpful to start teaching your children where to find these foreign nations, instead of driveling on and on about 'intelligent design'. I absolutely detest the scourge we call 'religion'; every cell in my body hates organized religion and all unnecessary evil it has brought this world. Christianity, Islam, Judaism and all those other cults have only served to sow fear and despair in order to control the dumb masses. The same goes for nationalism; a flag is a piece of cloth and a national anthem a series of musical notes. Big deal, these 'stars and stripes'; your 'national identity' is nothing more than a way of keeping you brainwashed and under control. I'm sorry, but as a globally minded atheist, I see absolutely no incentive to like any republican candidate. Ever. The ideology is simply too close-minded.

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GTech: I have some personal experience with regard to the general issue of regulation and oversight of the financial/real estate industry and will reference some links on the issue of deregulation/removal of effective regulation by state overseers of financial/real estate transactions.

My experience: Back in the 1980's I was a commercial real estate broker. I was fortunate at the early stages to work with the 2 best guys in my market for selling land for development for office buildings. They educated our office to the financial elements, they made a lot of deals, and subsequently I worked on one transaction with them. Later I sold a different land site for office development.

During that learning and education process, every deal had some of the same characteristics: The land prices were very high, the building costs were fairly controlled and consistent- and together the land costs and building costs of every deal with any kind of financing the parties could get--did not financially pan out. Prospective rental rates were not covering the costs of carrying the buildings. The debt and the costs of operating the buildings were higher than any expectations for rents for a foreseeable future.

It happened on every deal. Meanwhile, buyers and investors were flooding money into these markets. Basically the buildings were being built for the following reasons: 1. Money was easily accessible and there was a lot of it.
2. Over many years, with escalations in the rents there would ultimately be a profit. 3. Every deal included the vision of selling the building to a new buyer at a big profit.

Meanwhile developers loved doing this because they made big fees for building the buildings. The lenders loved it because they were making huge fees for making loans. Foreign investors loved it because they saw this market as one of the best in the world. yada yada yada.

There was a lot of emphasis on number 3.

While I was doing that stuff I got a bunch of Savings and Loan Institutions as clients. At the tail end of the 1970's and early 1980's S & L's almost went under because of high mortgage rates. To save them the government enacted a series of regulations that: 1. Allowed them to buy and consolidate and cross state lines; 2. Expand their business into making commercial real estate loans. (before that they just made residential loans); 3. They had new very loose regulatory and accounting principals.

Because the S&L's were buying smaller weaker and cross state line other S&L's they had a lot of extra real estate. I got involved with a couple of them, and for two of them I was their real estate broker dude. I sold a couple of extra buildings for them, leased out excess space, helped them move and consolidate offices. yada, yada. (pretty heady stuff for a guy who likes to hang out, drink a few brewskis, be with pretty girls or a wife, and watch or play sports-)

Because I was successful on their behalves and because they had relatively new commercial lending groups with new staff and were seeing all these new opportunities, I got to see and comment on some of the loan requests for new development.

Every one was like the ones I had participated in earlier. They didn't make financial sense basically unless you sold the buildings for a lot of money to the next guy.

I probably got to see about 30 or so, and finally started opening my big mouth...suggesting that there was something wrong there. There were just to many of these deals going on wherein the only opportunity to make money was to sell it to the next unsuspecting rich sukker(s). How many dumb sukkers are there? It is not an infinite number. It is the definition of a ponzi scheme.

While I saw a little bit of what was going on in 2 institutions the same thing was happening around the country in what was probably between 1500-3,000 institutions.

It resulted in a boom of real estate construction and then a burst bubble. There was way too much space and not enuff tenants. The whole thing burst and it caused the recession of the early 1990's. It also caused the collapse of about 1,000 S&L's over 10 years and about a total of about $150 billion in bailouts.

I also saw a lot of syndication partnership deals, invested in one, participated in a simpler one, and knew a number of the people who were involved in this industry. Some had a lot of integrity, some had less. I wouldn't say there were a lot of geniuses but a lot of people made a lot of money doing this stuff. It was a great example of a booming industry.

I saw a lot of partnership documents, some of which were a little regulated. Very very complex stuff, even for "sophisticated" investors and their attorneys.

Having been through that cycle I believe certain levels of regulation are smart and justified. They can oversee a financial environment that will, I believe, always move to extremes. Too many smart aggressive financial wizards will get involved and the boom will go bust with some big big losers. It will ultimately move to a basis where there will be super smart controlling entities that will structure transactions that take advantage of those that aren't at the same level of control, sophistication, or experience with the legal agreements.

That is my experience.

I think the mortgage crisis that we face now is somewhat of a reflection of that time period. Different types of buildings, different types of financial agreements, but the same underlying characteristics; lots of easy money, (in this case cheap money), the deals don't make immediate sense unless you sell to the next sucker (or refinance).

Okay....what happened in mortgages?

Reference this article from 2003....http://www.law.state.ak.us/pdf/press/press_r1a.pdf

Many state attorney generals, state bank supervisors, and the conference of state bank supervisors joined to file on behalf of a law suit that directly attacked the removal of state bank supervision and moved it into the purview of the feds.

Reference this article from 2004. It references different regulatory groups and a different fed operator, but identifies a similar situation wherein removing an institution from one regulatory institution to a federal institution ultimately meant no regulation. 35,000 depositors took a hit. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...93AA15751C0A9629C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

Finally reference this summary editorial from earlier this year.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021302783.html

It presents an overview of the changing character of financial institution oversight.

Now who always screams to keep the government out of their hair? Well first the industry leaders, their lobbiests will call out for keeping the government out of their hair. They don't yell out, free us, quit bothering us and quit looking over our shoulders. They always yell out that it is a "restriction on the market place and a restriction on free trade". Then of course the politicians who represent primarily the Right will scream out that this is a restriction on trade and business and will inhibit the market place. The whole thing gets politicized into a theoretical discussion.

Its a nice match. If the business guys get the govt out of their hair they can do anything they want. In strict finance and in real estate their are plenty of smart aggressive, talented folks who are dealing in big money and can figure out how to make BIG BIG BIG bucks. Meanwhile that argument jives with the far Right that loves to scream about the unemcumbered market and how it is the only and best thing and will make you more money and keep the economy flourishing.

My perspective is that a little bit of regulation ultimately is just a layer of additional overhead. It doesn't stop folks from making money. It tends to protect those who aren't as sophisticated and/or can monitor and control a market that is going out of whack.

Frankly everyone benefits from having a parent or a referree.

Over time I was partially aware of arguments about lack of oversight in the mortgage business, especially in these last few years. You just have to look at the explosion of sub prime mortgages: No money or hardly any money down, In many cases no credit checks, Variable rate loans that start with sub rate teaser rates that draw the borrower in and then variable rate increases. The entire thing was sold with the specific or tacit understanding that the borrowers could always refinance and the housing prices were always going up. Sounds like a ponzi scheme to me.

I'd say bring in the refs!!!

Bush's administration moved regulatory oversight of this industry from active state groups to an inactive fed regulatory entity. This may well have exaserbated the situation.

 

obama is my preferece

 

By the way, I haven't heard a single republican successfully fend off the argument that McCain voted for approximately 90% in unison with airhead Bush. What change are you republicans talking about anyways? McCain is just same shit, different face. The fact that so many republicans ignore this and actually *believe* that McCain is so much different from Bush is laughably pathetic at best.

 

You can refute the false claim yourself by using a Google Search.

Very disrespectful to your Elder. It's fine that you will not cast a vote for the American hero but you should show him respect. He went through more hardship imprisoned as a POW than most people could endure..

Same reply as before.

 

Heh! Go ahead and rant.

"Us" as in Americans? Did I fight in WWII? Nope. Got a problem with that? Get over it. Think I'm disrespectful? No way. 100% appreciative AND respectful.

You think we should set here and take crap from foreigners that ARE disrespectful after saving their ass? Go ahead and eat it up. Get yourself a mouthful.

 

What I was trying to say, is that WWII is history. Yes, Europe is grateful for its liberation and it should be. But that doesn't mean that things change; Europe has already outgrown the US by means of gross domestic product and China is going to ougrow us all withing five to ten years. I dare say that western countries need *eachother* in these strange times. We're basically in the same boat, since what affects the US affects Europe and vice versa. The US has been wasting a tremendous amount of goodwill through the rampant actions of mr. Bush (circumventing the UN security council, ignoring Kyoto, just to name two). What it takes to remain standing in these changing times is *mutual* respect and understanding. That, in my opinion, is something republican policy has always neglected.

By the way; if your reasoning holds, what about your respect for the French for supporting you in the independence war? Times change.

 

obama seems to be well on his way
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

 

That looks good. I guess Florida will be the hinge again.

Lol, they should display a map of the world. It would be all blue

 

he can also get Ohio and Michigan

 

Perhaps here?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8245636/

 

Since you claim to be making $12K a month - have fun paying higher taxes under Obama.

 

You really need to stop watching TV my friend, and start reading....This should keep you busy for a while:

http://www.voltairenet.org/en

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2008/06/402169.html

 

Hurray Republicans ignore everything said at the DNC! Go Republicans! I'd vot Obama if I could!

 

I am a Republican?

Because I have a bastard child?
Because I support abortion rights for women?
Because I support gay marriage?
Because I am an atheist?
Because I believe in evolution?
Because when I walk and talk I sound like a liberal?

All those things make me a Republican? Before you start labeling people, you might want to fully understand them.

I was just simply stating a fact - under Obama the higher salaried people will pay higher taxes.

It is really discouraging to find no room under the DNC tent if I can't have independent thoughts.

 

Nobama got no experience - Mc is too old!

We are just f*c*ed

 

Mc Cain mean destruction and world war 3!

Someone should be high or really insane to vote for Mc cain!