Should the motto "In God We Trust" be removed from U.S. currency?

No it should not be removed according to me as I believe in GOD and money is GOD!

 

Believing in God or not, The Founding Fathers came together against a King. Do you really think the 1700's did not have an influence of God. A God that was different from a King? How did King George rule without God being considered?

 

Let me see if I can put this to PHPGator in a way he can understand. I have read the comments for NPT and Grim and I totally agree with what they are trying to say. Here's how I interpret it and maybe it will help PHP understand the point better....

We are not upset because "In God We Trust" is printed on our money and it "affects our daily lives" or "forces us to believe something we don't". The whole point is that the sole purpose of our government is to enforce the Constitution. You and I, as citizens of this country, have freedom of speech and freedom of religion (basically we have the right to have an opinion). BUT, and here's where it gets good, the government itself, acting as an entity protecting these rights, should NOT have an opinion PERIOD. In order for the government to do what it was set up to do, which is to protect our freedoms, it needs to be a completely neutral party. It shouldn't be swaying public opinion towards any moral belief or religion. Does that make sense?

If our gov't truly wants to protects our rights, then it will do so from a neutral position.

This discussion kinda reminds me of something that made me feel incredibly uncomfortable and out of place, kinda like the phrase we are discussing.

My sister-in-law invited me to a barbeque at her house. She asked if I could bring a dish, OF MY CHOICE, so there would be more variety at the party. When I told her that I wanted to bring deviled eggs, she told me that she would prefer me to bring something else. Well, after I called off a number of other dishes I could make, she finally decided to tell me that she would just rather I bring chicken salad because "it would match her menu better". Either way I was going to feel uncomfortable at the party now. I didn't have the money to buy all the ingredients I use in chicken salad, but had plenty of eggs. I ended up making the deviled eggs becuase it was what I could afford. Boy, she really made me feel like the odd man out because of it too. If she wanted everyone to bring a specific dish, then she should have told everyone so instead of making everyone feel uncomfortable when they arrived because they didn't meet expectations.....

 

If your weren't so far away I would send you a big smooch!!!!! Our gov't should be in a neutral position and allow our freedoms be accepted.

 

They came together against British rule, how you are trying to equate to that having to be about god is truly 'out there'

Some believed in god, some will say god help them in their day to day lives, that does not make the founding of this nation based upon god, not even close.

 

The 1700's were into God. There weren't many books. The printing press was invented during that time and what the colonialists wanted most were the newspaper and a copy of the Bible. The show that everybody back then looked forward to was Sunday Mass every week. I read before that some of the Founding Fathers did not believe in God but that did not take away from their daily lives with God being a major concern for them and people of the day. Without the people believing that God favored them instead of overseas King the results of the revolution would have been disastrous.

 

What you are posting has no basis in fact and is nothing more than propaganda for the religious right with all honesty.

Just because some, even hell if most were Christians does NOT make the US founded upon it. If it were the constitution would have god in it.

All you continue to post is the same thing over and over, items that are being stretched as far as possible to make the founding of this great nation the way you wish it was, not the way it was.

 

Eric, as with your comment on "In God We Trust being the first words in the U.S. Constitution", there are several errors in your post above, and, otherwise, I have issue with some of your unsourced contentions.

Well, you are off by a few centuries, since Gutenberg adopted Asian printing technologies to create the moveable type printing press in the early 1400's. And there were a good many books, on cheap (paper) medium, that had been brought into mass production. (I have one - a 1743 German text, one of the first texts to codify naturopathy in science and practice).

There is ample evidence the newspaper was a critical component for the mobilization towards independence, and for building the young nation after. Do you have a source that supports the notion that "what they wanted most was a copy of the Bible"? (I'm not disputing this, by the way - I just don't have the stats).

I do not understand how those who didn't believe in God, at the same time find that God was a major concern for them, in their daily lives. Can you explain your reasoning here?

 

That was a typo. I had the post's topic in mind and typed it that way.

It was used in the colonies as an important news and print distribution method. Not many other ways of entertainment, except reading the newspaper and books. The most popular book back then was the Bible. That was really the point.

Their is no statistical proof with numbers. The understanding of the role of religion and its Holy Books (this would be the Bible in this circumstance) is from archeological and historical studies of societies. From those studies religion was an important foundation in the colonial times as Sunday mass were also like Town Hall meetings were the residents can voice their opinions about concerns of taxation, etc. after mass. Religion was an vital part of life in the colonial times and Sunday mass was the most important meeting of the week.

Those that did not believe in God back then still needed to deal with the majority of people that believed in God. Without understanding God it would be difficult to sway opinions of the people from petitioning for no taxes to creating an army to take on the world's superpower.

 

Edit: The printing press was invented in the 1400's not in the 1700's

 

No, thats what I read everytiime I get money

 

I enjoyed reading your well thought out comments on this topic, PHPGator.

Haven't been around much lately, but was reading through the thread and couldn't help but notice how well responded you are, with rational and reason, vs. the other, who simply states "you need to read, what you post has no basis in fact (without even offering anything to counter!), you don't know the Constitution, you need to read up on the Founding Fathers, etc, etc, etc" without ever offering anything other than criticism of your position. I guess that's to be expected from a few here.

Our Country was built upon Christian principles. Atheists and anti-Christians often like to suggest otherwise, but the opinions have little basis in reality.

Our Constitution is neutral, as it should be. That doesn't mean our Country was not built upon Christian principles. In fact, it was and a number of our Founding Fathers noted such. It was not muslims, or hindus or atheists or Jews or Satanists coming to America in droves. It was Christians, many seeking freedom from religious persecution in Europe.

If we go back to the 1600s, the 1700s, the 1800s when this country was burgeoning, in virtually every township across this country, there was a church. The same cannot be said of other religious places of worship.

There's a difference between "The US is a Christian Nation" and "The US was established upon Christian principles." The aforementioned is arguable, in the sense that our Country nor our Constitution forces any particular religion upon anyone. Nor, is everyone in the Nation a Christian. However, our Country was established upon Christian principles, and it's not a stretch, by any means, to acknowledge that. It is factual. A number of our Founding Fathers have noted such.

American society has been heavily influenced by Christian beliefs and traditions. We take off for a week (schools for two) during Christmas holidays. We take off for Easter (schools for a week). We don't take off for Ramadan, we don't take off for other religious holidays. We take off for Christian holidays.

We were not established under islam (thankfully), as we do not subscribe to sharia laws (thank God!). A mixture of everyone built this great country, but by and far, it was Christians and there is no question that Christian principles have guided our country through the centuries. The majority of people in this country, since it was first settled, have always been Christians. Today, 77% of Americans are Christians.

While there are certainly a few Founders that had written of their position regarding a "Christian Nation," there are also Founders who had differing positions. For example, John Jay was one of the framers of the Constitution and the first Supreme Court Justice. He noted:

Patrick Henry, the notable Founding Father who is credited with "Give me liberty or give me death," wrote:

Thomas Jefferson, of whom many attribute to being anti-Christian, wrote in his Bible:

George Washington, in his farewell speech, offered:

John Adams, a noted Founding Father offered:

John Quincy Adams, President, Son of John Adams and Chairman of the American Bible Society offered:

Calvin Coolidge, President, offered:

Additonally, there is some good info here on the history of religion and our Founding Fathers. Should set the record straight, once and for all, regarding the US being founded upon Christian principles.

 

Very good Gtec. The naysayers will come all too soon. I read a book one time with 1000's of religious quotes from the writers of the constitution. Do you have any idea of the title? The title escapes me.

 

Really, I have read it multiple times and don't remember 'god' being apart of it.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Washington's_Farewell_Address
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm
http://se2.isn.ch/serviceengine/Fil...d=7F2C9EAE-AA35-7341-EB4D-059BD758A33E&lng=en

I'm not even going to bother looking into the others.................

 

Oh yes the naysayers who disprove what is posted.

The problem with many of these 'quotes' is they do not exist, I have researched them before, in this very thread I brought it up.

Even with some of the founding fathers being religious it does not change the constitution now does it?

 

Wade, I disagree. I do not disrespect yours, or anyone else's right, to practice your faith as you would - and believe the Framers felt the best way to ensure this was to keep it out of the public sphere. You have named Jefferson and John Adams. I certainly never said Jefferson was anti-Christian, and nor am I. I nevertheless cannot place their views in the orbit you're arguing:

A Christian man, who believed it is the complete separation between matters of faith and matters of governance that ensures the health of both. I literally cannot read the above any other way. If you, or someone else can, I am sincerely open to a good listen.

And from John Adams:

Specifically, in this Treaty (of Tripoli), establishing that America is not a Christian nation, literally.

I feel we must distinguish between religious sentiments, a private right to be enjoyed without any constraint; and public governance for that same sentiment. I believe the sentiments above cannot literally be seen any other way.

 

Homebiz, I appreciate Wade's post as well; I appreciate Grim's, and anyone else that posts substantive thought - getting to the truth is what we all should presume we are trying to do.

That said, to name anything counter to your, or Wade's, opinion as "mere naysaying" might feel like a palliative, but it does not answer the words, for example, of Thomas Jefferson or John Adams (not to mention James Madison, earlier mentioned), above.

 

If my memory serves me correctly Jefferson more leaned to god the older he got.

In other words if someone does something when he is 20 years old, but then becomes something at 50, you can not say he was that thing at 20 simply because he is at 50.

I'll admit it's been awhile since I looked into the entire religious angle of every founding father. Even if every single founding father was a priest it still would not change what the constitution is, it would not change their owns words as to what they felt the constitution should stand for.

 

Interesting you say that, Grim, as I remember reading, in the context of Jefferson's thoughts near the end of his life, a man very different from his early youth; so much so, I read in his last letters a father hopeful the youth inheriting the country would make the country their own (especially in the realm of the early framing of the U.S.). (I discussed this somewhere on here long ago - too lazy to dig up this letter or letters, but it was fascinating).

Jefferson was roundly rebuked by some for his strong views on the separation of Church and State. Emblematic, for them, was his authorship of the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom. The full text:

(Blue, an interesting and relevant quote, it seems to me, that no person of any particular religious faith should be deemed "unfit" for public life or role; red/black, relevant to his views on the dangers of mixing the state and religion).

The Fathers differed in their view, and none of them held perfect sway over the framing of our country (the "3/5 personhood" of slaves, a great example). It seems clear to me the first amendment establishment clause embraced the notions espoused by Jefferson, particularly in light of the epistolary documents surrounding its drafting: again, agreeing with his notion that conflation of public governance and religious life tends to restrain religious practice, not provide for its freedom. I also agree.

 

We should remember most of our founders were slave-owners, so not everything they did is a perfect model.