McCain Plays Dirty By Choosing a Woman as His VP

I think most of us are intelligent enough to know the president doesn't call the shots, he may authorize them, but he has many advisers telling him what to do.

However, i still have a bit of hope that if he was advised to start stripping the country of guns, and to allow abortion to be the new contraceptive, or to sign the bill on making it OK for a religious tradition to be preformed by those that the religion condemns, hopefully, just hopefully our president with decent values and morals will stand up and say NO!!

 

What bill? Specifics?

 

As much as I hated Clinton, I think Bush proved more so than ever 'anyone' can be president.

 

Just a hypothetical statement (hince the if), no specifics, feel free to fill in the blanks on your own.

 

Sorry but most of your 'fill in the blanks' sounds like the religious right stances, stances that have no real firm stand in the real world.

Such as guns, both Kerry and Bush had the same stance on the assault weapons ban 'but' the right wing bashed Kerry on it, most don't even realize the stance was pretty much the same on both sides.

 

Only one was a religious right, the other was a constitutional right and another was a life right. in no particular order.

IMO There's no reason to ban weapons, do you honestly think criminals will obey this law? no it will leave all law abiding Americans unarmed prisoners to an armed criminal militia.

Just my 2 cents

 

Constitution trumps anything or at least it should when it comes to the law of the land, btw all 3 sure sound like the religious right stances to me, the far right fantasy fears to gather support in any case.

I am pro gun, more so than even you more than likely so I don't understand why you'd ask that question to me. Appears a way of avoiding the fact that Kerry and Bush had the same stance on the assault weapons ban.

 

Moral rights maybe, the only reason they sound like religious/christian rights is because, christianity is based on morals, being kind, and doing the right thing to preserve a moral life.

And i seriously doubt you are more pro gun than I





This is all besides the point.

I see it better to place a president with decent moral values in office, rather than a president with no experience, no moral values, possible links to radical Islam, and terrorists, and promises that he will never deliver.

 

Sorry, was thrown by your use of "the" and "on" in:

In other words, the hypothetical would be the asking, not the bill itself; i.e., IF George Bush was asked to sign THE bill ON....

-led me to conclude you were talking about an actual bill.

 

Great point made. What type of revolver are you shooting? What type of guns do you protect yourself, family and neighborhood with.

 

Many things are based on morals, Simply, which is what I have tried to say on another thread. Christianity's morals are but one set of morals, and the presumption that outside of Christianity - with the imprint of rightist political philosophy - no morals exist, is precisely the problem, I would say.

You dismiss Obama's morals as non-existent, and contradict yourself with:

So, you once stated (finally) you believed it was all a crap hoax, and now, again, state he has "possible links to radical Islam, and terrorists?"

I find myself in the odd position of being a guy who once supported Obama on what I believed he could bring to the table, and defended him, on principle, against smears - the same principle that would defend anyone against smears. I now find myself as a guy who has cooled on him a good deal, as a candidate, nevertheless, defending him on the same smears.

The phenomenon of these smears is unheralded, it seems to me. It would be an interesting sociological study.

 

Palin also has a sense of humor


She may be broke but not flat busted

 

Its a 44, not mine, i hated shooting it. It was very uncomfortable, after going through only 6 rounds your hand was feeling it.

My personal gun is an AK-47, more for fun than protection, but if it came down to it, it would do the trick. I will be getting a 40 cal sig soon for home protection. I hope to never use it though.

North i have to hand it to you, your a very thorough man, however I said "possible links" i didn't say he was linked I didn't say i believed he was linked, however there are some that will swear to it. I only stated the possibilites were there, it is however a fact that he said he would stand with Muslims, over Americans. Its written in his own book.

As far as morals, i guess you are correct, so let me define my idea of morals.

Good Moral Traits = kind, polite, hard working, submissive (to a point), obedient, loving, considerate, generous.

A man with good morals protects the ones he loves, defends innocent human life, is trustworthy and loyal.

When i see Obama, or Hillary, i do not see these things, i see lies, i see abortionists, I see greed and selfishness.

Sure morals can vary, but right and wrong stays the same.

 

Then forgive me for misinterpreting you, since I take:

To mean you have concluded the possibility is nil, that it's all just a crap game, unless you buy propaganda, or have changed your mind.

Well, several things.

Your statement intimates that in the event of some kind of presumed Islamic overthrow of the United States Government, the would-be President-elect of the United States would stand with the overthrowing cabal, over the people of the United States. He would thus be a traitor, or, perhaps, he was the plant in the first place?

Secondly, as it's written in his book, pretty ballsy and/or stupid for a traitor and/or plant to transparently disclose his true intentions, no?

Can you please provide the quote from his book exposing this incredibly ham-fisted conspirator?

Then why have there been centuries of debate over what is right, and what is wrong, within Christian theology itself, no to mention the multiplicity of creeds across time and space that have guided man's ontological search?

 

you are forgiven

Ive accepted that the majority is propaganda, but Ive been wrong before, so the possibility still exists.

Anything is possible, We had terrorists living in Florida for years and didn't know it.

I would say so, yes.

The actual quote from the book is from page 261 and is as follows: "Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

I searched high and low for the complete quotes in context, most only have the one line, and after reading it, i understand what he means, and do not hold it against him at all.

The debate falls on the theology of right and wrong according to scriptures, which i have recently realized, are pretty much open to interpretation, hince the creeds.

In most cases knowing right and wrong can be pretty basic. Is it right to end an innocent life. Obvious answer is no, its not right.

 

To the above, uh, O.K. You earlier spent dozens of posts stating you realized it's all propaganda, now, it's "possible" he's an Islamic terrorist plant. Good luck with that.

Gee, really? Good, since he said nothing of what you said he did. And the smear never does play out in reality, actually, which is my problem with the volumes of such blather we've seen on this forum alone.

I knew Tokyo Rose, and know her family. I know families whose lives were disrupted, at best, and virtually destroyed, at worst, by our policies towards Japanese-American citizens during WWII. Obama's statement of affirmation is in my mind a statement of courage, nothing less; and your spilling a half-baked, completely false line that avers a FACT pulled from the nether regions:

Is precisely why I say we have had enough of a culture of fear and ignorance. Firstly, are Pakistani and Arab Americans necessarily Muslim? Secondly, if you presume so, cannot Muslims be Americans? Thirdly, what the hell are you talking about, since he said nothing like what you said he said - as 'FACT"?

Not sure where you're going here. Agreed, they are open to interpretation, and, admitting that, makes it pretty difficult to say there is "one" truth, even in the context of your scriptures - much less other creeds, other faiths.

If I'm coming off as flippant, I intend to. I believe a free society enjoins us to act more responsibly, and more bravely, than promulgating lies stated as truth, smears in lieu of substantive points of view, and a culture that would attempt to squeeze what it is to be "American" into the tightest of apertures, from which no light, eventually, can come.

I believe we've had enough.

 

Not at all, the same stances come from the same group of people. I have read similar posts and articles, almost always coming from the religious right.

I'm not even going to get into the 'morals' issue.

Running around with guns and playing Rambo does not make one more pro gun than another. I strongly support the 2nd amendment, to the point I believe the NRA is a joke and has rolled over to a weak stance of what the 2nd amendment is. I believe you should be able to own any gun or weapon you choose, short of perhaps a nuclear bomb. If you want to own a tank I believe as a citizen under the 2nd you should be allowed to.

Owning a gun does not make a person more pro gun, if you'd like to think that, well I'll simply say you better be glad you're wrong as people like me who do not own a single gun will support your right to own any gun you choose to, even more so than the NRA or more than likely yourselves...

I'd rather have a president who is going to uphold the constitution and follow the law over and preconceived 'morals'

Personally I can not vote for either candidate. I still find it funny, so many thought I was crazy when I supported McCain, almost all right wingers on here and elsewhere said they would not support him, now however they are flocking to him like crazy...

 

You know, Grim, I noted that as well. Many calling him "crazy," etc., only a matter of months ago are now coming out in strong support. Odd world, actually.

 

So when McCain called his wife the c-word in public, did you think that was the action of a moral man and a good husband?

 

North, i took back my statement about obama siding with muslims once i found the only obtainable exact quote on the internet, before i found it, all i could find was partial exerts which i now see were purposely leaving out the complete paragraph.

So you can step off my back on that one, i have already said i was wrong. If you want to become hostile please point it at those that start the lies, not those that are deceived by them. I admitingly have a problem, its called trust. I tend to trust things when i see them over and over again. And i look at it like this, i can either trust some things, or reject everything, i choose to trust. Especially when i had to search for nearly an hour just to find something that objected to what i mistakenly stated as fact. You should be happy that i am one of the few that will admit it when im wrong.

As far as the religion issue. You need to understand, for one, i no longer consider myself a christian, due to the fact that there is no "one truth" The fact that this "one truth" does not exist, i have reconsidered my beliefs and faith. I've found trouble believing God is what they say he is, that this Almighty God, that can do anything and everything he wishes, cant show his self. So they are not "my scriptures"




Grim.
Let me get this straight....If you want to protect innocent life, support the second amendment, spread peace around the world, or just to good things....according to you, this means you must be a part of a religious group? Are you really saying that? Why not a humane group? A peace group? I am not a follower of any established religion, yet i believe in these things.

As far as the pro gun issue i have to disagree, owning a gun definitely makes one more pro gun, than the one that doesn't own a gun, and to say otherwise is just ridiculous.

Im very greatfull for people like you that support the second, yet do not own a gun, but the truth of the matter is, if you went out and bought a gun, you would add even more support.

Of course people are flocking to McCain, look at the alternative, Obama is making all these promises, that our government was designed to reject. And many people can see through them. Hillary tore the man apart in the last year, now HE'S DA MAN! Obama is all about tomorrow, This country needs help today!

i see him as a human being, we all have tempers, i don't think it was right, but we all have out moments, Ive regrettably called my wife names before too. Sometimes we do not properly control our anger, anyone that says they have never acted out of anger is a lier.