The people of Afghanistan are caught between the devil and the dreaded Taleban. Obviously, they believe their devil is the US-led force which operates in Afghanistan under a UN mandate. The International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), as this force is properly known, is responsible for thousands of civilian deaths in Afghanistan. Last Friday, August 22, the US troops in ISAF killed 95 civilians, including 60 children and 19 women, adding to the ever increasing number of civilian deaths. According to UN figures, in the first six months of this year alone, some 1,000 civilians had been killed in the Afghan war. This is much higher than the number of Taleban militants killed during the same period: 473. Other estimates say that more than 25,000 Afghans have died since the US aggression in October 2001. Read Full Article http://www.dailymirror.lk/DM_BLOG/Sections/frmNewsDetailView.aspx?ARTID=24676
and the pilots who dropped the bombs will probably get a medal and high five each other back home bragging how they "fight for freedom"...they take the freedom to fly over your house and spray death and destruction in the name of democracy...the whole world is their playground because they have the biggest guns... its like superman stealing an old ladies purse and gloating to himself "yeah! im awesome!" and when they get bin laden they will just make a martyr out of him...its not like the world is short of crazy extremists willing to take his not so high tech job... war on drugs, war on terror lol the US presence in afghanistan is one big joke...try taking your armies and aggressive foreign policy back home and leave other countries alone and the terrorists will leave you alone LOL...
I just want you to know, when I came online and read this, this morning, it made me lower my opinion of humanity. It's a disgusting comment, and you would have been better off to say nothing. It's not collateral damage, it's murder. That's what you would call it if it was happening in your neighborhood, to the people you know and love. It is never ok to kill the innocent. Never acceptable. It's why the troops are in Afghanistan in the first place. If it's an eye for an eye, the Iraqis have already paid for 9/11, 30 to 300 times over in their blood, and those poor bastards only sin is that they live on top of oil.
Collateral damage happens in every war Guerilla. Has there ever been a war where collateral damage against civilians did not happen? If you fill that strong about the US troops leaving go to Afghanistan and Protest. Oil that is a joke reply usual. More Anti American nonsense I know I got my high fives after a good days work. The great thing about Afghanistan is that the skinnies from around the world are commuting to the Afghan desert to fight the well trained troops. We are not having to find them, the brainwashed skinnies are looking for us. Maybe you should go to Afghanistan to rid the country of American Soldiers. AtV please remove the quote you assigned to me that I did not write.
That's not the point. Your callous and evil comment that no tears should be shed for the innocent, is. The average everyday Iraqi citizen, 10s (if not 100s) of thousands who have been killed so far, not to mention the millions who are refugees with no home and no where to go, didn't have anything to do with 9/11. But their lives where smashed and their bodies burned and melted by war. And a moron like you will write, "No tears will be shed". What are you, 15 years old? You're absolutely disgusting, if not sick and demented.
No tears will be shed except by the people that know them. It sounds like you are"15 sick and demented" and just posting the same anti American rhetoric that you always post. There will be death in war. You should take a job with RONCO and learn a little bit first had.
Collateral damage does occur, but at a very low ratio. For example, look at WWI 40 Million deaths of which 20 Million were civilians, thats a 1:1 ratio. However, when you look at wars that we started because of arrogance like Afghanistan and Iraq, the rates are much higher. When the Democrats take control, they will bring our soldiers who don't want to stay there back. Peace,
i have no doubt that you did...i met people like you during the war...borg... most of the "skinnies" have no choice...the US invasion makes anybody who says anything "pro west" seem like a traitor...democrats and moderates are silenced by your bombs and killing...this is a fertile field for extremists to have their will with the general population...its not hard to hate the death and destruction of the US hired gun...some of the "skinnies" get food and shelter from alquaida, a luxury they cant live without, and some have lost family to your bombs and guns...you are on their land not the other way around... brainwashed skinnies? i put it to you that if you and your family were in the same situation it would not be hard for a group of men with AK-s to make you fight for their cause...sure youre going to deny this but you and i both know that a gun to the head makes people change their mind real quick... no thanks im not a violent person and i could not live with the guilt if i took somebodys life...sure if youre a borg its no problem but im just a normal guy who does not have to carry a gun to feel like a real man nor do i see any heroics in men at arms shooting shit up... as for taking on the american hired gun there is no need...you will be your own undoing like every empire before you... i just saw the above lol...you seem more upset with my gag than you do with the dead children? in fact its a miracle you feel anything at all is this perhaps a short circuit somewhere in your borg exoskeleton lol...
What if the Dems don't win? What if the Dems do not bring the troops back? What will be the reply then?
I couldn't disagree with you more, Homebiz. I have to ask - what the hell do you think and feel? Elsewhere, you state that Palin's got "values," and "no one else does in today's world." It's been on my craw for some time: sorry, but bluntly, through the advent of the Christian right, I have watched Christianity become perverted to such an extent that "values" now include the sentiments expressed in posts like yours - that "no one will shed tears over 'collateral damage' (of innocents)." A theology of forgiveness and compassion is now a sword of callous disregard for one's fellow beings. People here regularly rail on the Muslim members of our community for not condemning the terrorism committed by Bin Laden, his crew, or his variants, yet blithely continue to blast such perversions of Christ's message as you have chosen to do with your comment above. Let me make it very clear: I'm an atheist, and a veteran, and without knowing a single Afghan, I grieve for each one of those kids and family members, much as I grieve for the honorable service people recklessly sent into harm's way by this administration's arrogance and idiocy. I am sorry to say, I am utterly disgusted. It's time for all of us to drop the hatred, the ignorance, and pick up just a nugget of compassion - when anyone bleeds, we all bleed. To the war in Afghanistan, it was, and is, the right fight to make, for a host of reasons. A crying shame, and a tragic waste, we've split the effort stupidly.
Northpointtaiki, I am amazed that the statement “Collateral damage no tears will be shed.†brought such a response from three users in DP. What I think and feel does not matter in a war situation. A soldier has a job to do and the soldier does it, this has nothing to do with muslims, atheist or Christians. I do not promote the targeting of civilians or think that US soldiers target civilians. Have soldiers raped?…yes. Have they shot people on purpose they shouldn’t have?….yes. I think the soldiers that committed those crimes should have been brought to justice. Is there going to be Collateral damage?...yes. Unlike you I don’t think service people were recklessly sent into harm's way. You have to stay focused on the mission at hand. You are a fighter; do you feel remorse when you break a persons bone in pursuit of a sport? If so, have you quit spreading the needless violence that you teach? The self defense reply will not cut it. I have no hatred towards the Afghani’s however if I were there tomorrow I would have no problem doing my job. Could not do your job if you were there Northpointtaiki? If a person cannot fulfill there employment they should seek a different line of work. What is disgusting is that our soldiers are completely trashed talked in the forums by anti Americans and those words would not be said in a one on one confrontation. I do grieve for the dead servicemen that return and grieve for the hardship their family must endure after the fact. Civilians or skinnies getting killed in Afghanistan is not going to make me Anti-American.
I guess I fall in the middle here. I think its terrible about the innocent loss of life but at the same time it is a reality of war. We should try to take more steps to eliminate civilian death but at the same time in this type of war it is often hard to distinguish who is the enemy or not. And also a lot of civilian deaths are always tacked on. You can never find a concurring report on civilian death. Half the time we say 10 were killed and all of a sudden 80 were killed in another report. The numbers are not accurate. And for guerilla who cited Iraq. This topic was about Afganistan. Iraq and Afghan are two way different situations. The civilian death in Iraq is actually caused by al queda and or other Iraqis. Afghanistan maybe not s much. But either way I think homebizseo was way too harsh but the rest of you are just being way too eager to jump on board the anti american bandwagon.
Don't confuse warfare with nationalism. The issue was never America, it is the callous disregard as mentioned by homebiz for civilian casualties. It's not Anti-Americanism. It's a pro-peace, anti-war, pro-humanity position. Unless someone(s) here are foolish enough to tie the flag to the death of civilian women and children, it's best to avoid jingoism. I don't think anyone that is pro-America wants to define America as being for war, for collateral damage, so the charge of Anti-Americanism rings hollow when someone opposes these things. War does cause "collateral damage". That is why war should be avoided at all costs. That is why Christians for hundreds of years considered Augustine's "Just War" theory. That wars should never be fought on aggression, only self-defense. That you do not destroy your enemies, you reduce their ability to fight, and you certainly do not subjugate or occupy them afterwards. It's a shame that people have substituted patriotism for Christian values. Btw, baconbits, I assume it was you who repped me. Take this post as a response. One either stands for sane, moral, compassionate human values, or they are an animal. I'm done with and out of this thread, anxiously awaiting negative rep from the bloodthirsty who don't like all this "peace talk".
You're confusing several things, in my opinion, Homebiz. At the heart of it, Tells me, "unintended death to innocents, fuck them." If I've gotten it wrong, please let me know. Precisely. Which is why I would say the side-venture into Iraq when we had a clear mission in Afghanistan is a wanton, reckless, ill-conceived, arrogant waste of American servicemen and women, and loss of innocent Iraqi life. I don't take sending troops into harm's way lightly. I feel this administration has, and for that, I condemn it and its actions utterly.
Yes, I could. Would I adopt the notion that unintended deaths were worthless lives? God help me, if so. There's a zen notion - "die with the flie." It fits.
BTW I did not say that unintended deaths were worthless lives or that intended deaths were worthless lives.
translation: "it does not matter their lives are less important to me than the foreign policy of our corporate masters...our hired guns go and kill people this is reality" another guy who just does not care... how about actually looking at who you are shooting at with your cruise missiles and bombs? im sure the 60 children looked like WMD ...i have a great step to eliminate civilians deaths: be like every other country keep your bombs at home... how about a war crimes tribunal? how about some international accountability?? 60 dead children and NOTHING?? but if it was 60 american children i smell the double standard from waaaaay over here LOL... go ahead and deny it or try to explain why its different when 60 american children are in question...it will be all very amusing to me...