English as a second language - I would appreciate some help

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by DrZun, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. #1
    I will illustrate my problems by given you 2 short examples:

    Excerpt from an article I've written:
    Same excerpt, but edited by a professional writer:
    Hopefully you see the difference and agree that the second excerpt is better.

    I know there's nothing wrong with my excerpt (hopefully) but the second one it's just better. I really don't know why or how to to be able to write like that.

    I would appreciate it if anyone can put their finger and tell me exactly what is different between the 2 excerpts, and maybe give me some tips on how I could improve my communication skills.

    I own 2 websites and I pay freelancers to write the content. My goal is to be able to write my own content and to be able to communicate with other webmasters in my niche, like a Native English speaker would, in a friendly and professional manner.

    I would also like to mention that I have been started doing some serious reading in the past 2 years. Not a day goes by when I don't spend at least 90 minutes reading (marketing articles, fishing, fitness, fantasy etc..). The problem is that I see little or no improvement in my writing.

    Thank you in advance.
     
    DrZun, Aug 17, 2008 IP
  2. malcolm123

    malcolm123 Peon

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #2
    I think it will be hard to really get a firm grasp on phrasing like a native english speaker. Other than experience I don't know that there will be any real tools to help. Reading books would help I suppose. Don't go off how people write on forums like these.

    Derek
     
    malcolm123, Aug 17, 2008 IP
  3. Emily Cleaver

    Emily Cleaver Peon

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    3
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #3
    Like you say, there's not much technically wrong with the English in your first example, it’s just that the writer has improved the style and flow of the text, and so made the message of what you are trying to convey clearer.

    The main difference is that the writer has made it clear right up front why the reader needs this article. In your version you’ve got “Yes, you do need to create some content especially if you have a new forum.” This is just a statement, with nothing to back it up. Why do I need to create content?

    Whereas, your writer has “If your forum is relatively new or is not attracting a lot of interest, you are the one who needs to be generating content”. This explains why this article is relevant to me, and how it is going to solve my problem.

    It's about clearly explaining the issue, and how you are going to solve it. You don’t have any conditional clauses in your version – ie. “if this, then that”. So, you aren’t allowing your reader to identify with a situation, and with its solution.
     
    Emily Cleaver, Aug 18, 2008 IP
  4. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    8,909
    Likes Received:
    794
    Best Answers:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    455
    #4
    Both examples have multiple mistakes grammatically, so I wouldn't say one is better than the other at all in that general sense.

    As Emily said, the real difference is the addition of the motivation for reading more - the "why." Your own style is already relatively conversational - it looks like you really just needed to proofread or bounce it off of someone else. Keep doing that, and keep reading other conversational-style pieces, and you'll get used to the kinds of information you're currently missing. When you know what to look for, you'll be able to catch more of it on your own.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 18, 2008 IP
  5. Emily Cleaver

    Emily Cleaver Peon

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    3
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #5
    What kind of publications are you reading? I know some non-English speakers who say that reading a range of English language newspapers is the best way to improve. You know the English will be well written at least. I'm a native English speaker and I'm sure that frequently reading papers and magazines improves my style. Here are some (mostly British as that's where I am!) papers. If you want to perfect American English obviously American papers would be better.

    Broadsheet papers (more in depth articles and features)
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The New York Times

    Tabloid papers (more sensationalist and celebrity focused, but a great way of getting to grips with informal and colloquial British English.)
    The Sun
    The Daily Mirror
    The Daily Mail
     
    Emily Cleaver, Aug 18, 2008 IP
  6. DrZun

    DrZun Peon

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    1
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #6
    Thanks jhmattern and Emily for the feedback.

    I am currently reading Where's your WOW (marketing) and Stone of Tears (fantasy).

    I don't read newspapers because I rarely find something that arouses my interest.
     
    DrZun, Aug 18, 2008 IP
  7. geegel

    geegel Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    644
    Likes Received:
    47
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    145
    #7
    The way I see it, both variations are painfully boring. Now I've stopped writing content a long time ago, but just for the sake of argument here is my variation:

    There are probably a few mistakes in there, but that's the general idea of how I'd write it.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards, George
     
    geegel, Aug 19, 2008 IP
  8. RACER

    RACER Peon

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #8
    It must be very frustrating for you, since you sound as though your ideas are clear, but the translation is lacking. This a tough one to solve. My only suggestion is to keep your writing simple and direct, and maybe use a grammar checking software to help you improve.
     
    RACER, Aug 23, 2008 IP
  9. jeewant_gupta_051275

    jeewant_gupta_051275 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    11
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    108
    #9
    Being a non-native English writer like you, the ONE real suggestion I would like to give you is - Don't phrase the article as if you were speaking in your native language.You know, English follows ans SVO (Subject, Verb, Order) phrasing pattern, and it doesn't match most other language phrasing techniques. Just keep an eye on that, otherwise, I rather found YOUR piece of writing better (apart from some typical grammatical mistakes) because of the reason that it was shorter and crispier than the one written "PROFESSIONALLY".
     
    jeewant_gupta_051275, Aug 24, 2008 IP
  10. tptnyc

    tptnyc Peon

    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    5
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #10
    Even those non-natives living in usa for more than 20 years can never perfect native language ( can improve but never perfect). Even canadians are no good at it either though very close neighbors. So don't bother so much about it unless you have purely american readers.
     
    tptnyc, Aug 24, 2008 IP
  11. Kunalbhatia

    Kunalbhatia Active Member

    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    60
    #11
    Well, in the second excerpt, the writer as explained his stance on the subject clearly. Instead of writing short sentences, which may confuse the readers, he has written more on the topic in order to explain the context clearly.

    So to improve your writing skills, you should:
    1) Not write big sentences.
    2) Not try to sum an entire paragraph into one or two sentences, using a lot of commas and separators.
    Instead:
    1) you should explain the meaning as clearly as possible, it doesnt matter if its a bit long.
    2) Avoid confusing people by adding a lot of commas, separators and conjunctions in the same sentence.
     
    Kunalbhatia, Aug 24, 2008 IP
  12. AngelaE8654

    AngelaE8654 Active Member

    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    27
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    85
    #12
    You may want to take up reading at least one paper. Emily's given you some great resources. The reason I think this is important is because most newspapers are governed by something called the "AP Stylebook" which the editors and writers use to create copy that's understood across a wide audience of people. Most books don't adhere to one particular style across the board.

     
    AngelaE8654, Aug 24, 2008 IP
  13. Bbau01

    Bbau01 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    108
    #13
    I also am not a native english speaker, althought been speaking it forever. If possible, try *not* speaking or writing in your native langauge whatsoever for like..er... years if possible. That was the key for me. Even when you write say a shopping list or something, write it in english.

    Getting the basics down isn't the task, you obviously have that, it's getting the natural flow down. Forums helped me tons, like what you are doing now. Reading obviously, and not just techie stuff but more general writing, like many people's blogs here to get the natural flow.

    Also, don't panic too much, not perfect, but your english is really good from what I see.

    Just keep working at it, you will do great. Best of luck.
     
    Bbau01, Aug 24, 2008 IP