Gun-control groups fear top activist was NRA spy

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by browntwn, Aug 5, 2008.

  1. #1
    Gun-control groups fear top activist was NRA spy

    PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- A gun-control activist who championed the cause for more than a decade and served on the boards of two anti-violence groups is suspected of working as a paid spy for the National Rifle Association, and now those organizations are expelling her and sweeping their offices for bugs.

    The suggestion that Mary Lou McFate was a double agent is contained in a deposition filed as part of a contract dispute involving a security firm. The muckraking magazine Mother Jones, in a story last week, was the first to report on McFate's alleged dual identity.

    The NRA refused to comment to the magazine and did not respond to calls Tuesday from The Associated Press. Nor did McFate.

    The 62-year-old former flight attendant and sex counselor from Sarasota, Fla., is not new to the world of informants.

    She infiltrated an animal-rights group in the late 1980s at the request of U.S. Surgical, and befriended an activist who was later convicted in a pipe bomb attack against the medical-supply business, U.S. Surgical acknowledged in news reports at the time. U.S. Surgical had come under fire for using dogs for research and training.

    McFate resurfaced in Pennsylvania and has since spent years as an unpaid board member of CeaseFirePA and an organization called States United to Prevent Gun Violence. She also twice pushed unsuccessfully to join the board of the nation's largest gun-control group, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

    "It raises some real concerns with the tactics of the NRA. If they've got one person, maybe they have more. If they've done this dirty trick, what else have they done?" said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign, which planned to search its offices for listening devices and computer spyware.

    The Brady Campaign and other groups said they are also researching whether McFate's alleged spying constituted a crime.

    "Under some circumstances, it could be trespass," said Laurie Levenson, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles and a former prosecutor. But "if they're open meetings, it may be underhanded and sneaky; it may not be illegal."

    At States United, McFate served as federal legislation director, meeting with members of Congress on Capitol Hill and writing letters. Over the years, she also stuffed envelopes, attended rallies and took part in conference calls and strategy sessions.

    In retrospect, Helmke said, he now realizes McFate stopped by the Washington office for meetings and conference calls that could have been handled by phone, and perhaps pushed too hard to join the board or lobby Congress.

    But as for any secrets she might have been privy to, the gun-control groups said they have little to hide, since they put their message and information about their budgets on the Web.

    The allegations against McFate stem from a lawsuit brought against officials with Beckett Brown International, a now-defunct security firm based in Maryland. A former beer distributor who bankrolled the firm accused them of defrauding him.

    Boxes of documents filed in the dispute reveal that Sapone worked as a subcontractor for Beckett Brown and that the firm's clients included the NRA. And they show that McFate billed the firm for unspecified intelligence-gathering services, submitting among other things a request for a $4,500-a-month retainer in 1999.

    The documents also reveal that McFate - that is her maiden name; her married name is Mary Lou Sapone - tried to get daughter-in-law Montgomery Sapone hired by Beckett Brown. Montgomery Sapone worked as an intern at Brady Campaign headquarters in 2003, the gun-control group said.

    John Dodd III, the Maryland beer distributor who bankrolled Beckett Brown, told the AP that he did not condone the infiltration of activist groups.

    Bryan Miller, executive director of Ceasefire NJ, said he feels betrayed by McFate. Miller's brother, an FBI agent, was shot to death in 1994.

    "To have somebody that I consider a friend, have been with dozens of times, shared meals with, treated as a friend, to have her be an employee, a subcontracted spy for the NRA, is just mind-boggling. It's so venal," Miller said. "In the battle of ideas with the gun lobby, we're at a constant disadvantage because we're honest."

    Timothy Ward, a former Beckett Brown principal who said in a sworn statement that McFate worked for the firm, declined comment Tuesday through a person who answered the phone at his new company, Chesapeake Strategies Group. The NRA now uses that firm for intelligence-gathering, another Chesapeake official said in a deposition.

    The CeaseFirePA leadership plans a vote Friday on whether to expel McFate, a board member for seven years.

    "I feel flattered that the NRA would feel that they would have to infiltrate Ceasefire of PA. Obviously, they're hearing our footsteps," said Phil Goldsmith, the group's president. "Frankly, I think it's a waste of their money. We don't deal in state secrets." source
     
    browntwn, Aug 5, 2008 IP
  2. webwork

    webwork Banned

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    #2
    Awesome, I love the NRA.

    It's a good thing they are doing stuff like this, America people shouldn't have their right to bear arms questioned - EVER
     
    webwork, Aug 5, 2008 IP
  3. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #3
    That kind of tautology only ever works while parroting well rehearsed battle cries. Apply it to the real world and it will fall apart in a matter of seconds.

    Of course Americans should have their right to bear arms questioned. It should be questioned thoroughly and routinely.

    it's interesting that integrity, honesty and a sense of fairness go out the window when some wanna-be-Rambo's right to own a killing machine is questioned.

    Espionage? Guns? it seems these people have everything required from a soldier, Except the bollocks to sign up.
     
    stOx, Aug 5, 2008 IP
  4. lightless

    lightless Notable Member

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    #4
    Haha ..... very interesting. Strange place to find a spy in :D
     
    lightless, Aug 5, 2008 IP
  5. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #5
    lol I like how you word it "killing machine". I don't know about London, but here in America we have low tolerance for those who undermine our Constitution time and time again. If you want to know the correct interpretation of the 2nd Amendment maybe you should look at the context of which and why it was formed. If you are like the rest of these brainless fact-rehearsing liberals in every college, you won't have a damn clue as to why the 2nd Amendment is there. Maybe our founders were gathered around a campfire one late night, drunk as usual, and came up with all of this by freak chance.

    Or, maybe, JUST MAYBE, there was a reason we were given the right to bear arms.. could it be.. wait a minute. No, no way, you're not actually saying they were smart enough to give us a means to keep tyranny in check are you?

    Why, that's blasphemous!

    And self-defense? HOW DARE YOU ADMIRE FREEDOM.
     
    ncz_nate, Aug 5, 2008 IP
  6. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #6
    No doubt the 2nd amendment was put in place to give the common folks a way of defending their infant nation against someone who wished to take over, That's why the condition of the 2nd amendment is that the right to bear arms applies to those who are a part of a "well regulated militia".

    it's also interesting that every other mention of the phrase "bear arms" during and before the 1800's appeared specifically and exclusively in a military context. Soldiers were the only people who could "bear arms" as is defined by the usage of the phrase.
     
    stOx, Aug 5, 2008 IP
  7. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #7
    hahaha that is hilarious. So you think our founders envisioned a nation where only government personnel had access to firearms.. doesn't that.. kinda.. defeat the purpose!
     
    ncz_nate, Aug 5, 2008 IP
  8. webwork

    webwork Banned

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    #8
    No, that's not why it's there.

    Exactly Nate.

    And I strongly disagree with you Stox. The RIGHT to bear arms should never be questioned, it's just as important as freedom as speech.
     
    webwork, Aug 5, 2008 IP
  9. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #9
    Should it be questioned for a convicted felon, or someone that just got out of the mental hospital last tuesday?:)
     
    Rebecca, Aug 5, 2008 IP
  10. webwork

    webwork Banned

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    #10
    lol true....... Nobody wants to put guns in the hands of criminals, but in the hands of responsible people which make up the majority of America imho.

    Me, I can't own a gun because of the above - but I strongly believe in the importance of gun rights.
     
    webwork, Aug 6, 2008 IP
  11. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #11
    so it should be questioned then webwork and not every American should have the rights afforded to them by the constitution, As you understand it? see what i mean about that parroted rhetoric falling apart in the real world?

    No, I think they envisioned a nation where the ability for "well regulated militia" to possess weapons can never be infringed upon by a federal government. And what do i think that? because that's what they said.

    I find it hard to believe that anyone would think the 2nd amendment was designed to allowed the protected possession of weaponry by the general public.

    The constitution is treated by Americans much like the bible is by christians. when it supports what they are saying it's an unquestionable sacred text, But when it hints at something they might not like they turn a blind eye towards certain words or introduce hugely contrived interpretations.
     
    stOx, Aug 6, 2008 IP
  12. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #12
    I think we all know why the Constitution was formed, there's no need for intellectual bullshit here.

    London got whooped and if ya ever want to feel that defeat again just keep pushing around America and see what happens :D.
     
    ncz_nate, Aug 6, 2008 IP
  13. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #13
    I don't recall London ever getting "whooped".

    The constitution was made as a document outlining the rights and freedoms of American citizens. that doesn't mean it can be interpreted in any way so that if fits any persons particular beliefs. The Constitution is clear, The right of a well regulated militia to bear arms can not be infringed. it's there in plain English. I don't see how anyone can read that and conclude that it allows for the universal protected right of everyone to own a weapon.

    You could argue that it IS everyone's right to own a weapon, But you can't point to the constitution as supporting this supposed right.

    Of course, The case could also be made that any country that dogmatically follows a 200 year old text without question is a country destined to remain in the past.
     
    stOx, Aug 6, 2008 IP
  14. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #14
    The 2nd amendment has been a raging debate, and some Americans agree with you, for example the ACLU. Although, our supreme court has determined that it is the individuals right to keep and own guns, and that this right is supported by our constitution.
     
    Rebecca, Aug 6, 2008 IP
  15. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #15
    2nd Amendment:

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
     
    ncz_nate, Aug 6, 2008 IP
  16. webwork

    webwork Banned

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    #16
    I like to think it's there to protect the people against their own government, not other governments.

    Stox a lot of foresight went into the Constitution and while you might think 200 years is a long period of time, it's relatively new when you compare it to other nations.
     
    webwork, Aug 6, 2008 IP
  17. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #17
    Of course it's refering to people, who did you think were going to join the militia? Chimps?
     
    stOx, Aug 6, 2008 IP
  18. damian.hoffman

    damian.hoffman Peon

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    #18
    stox, you're wrong on this one. As nate pointed out, the second amendment reads:

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    As there is no other instance in the Constitution in which "the people" is taken to mean anything other than "the people", I would say that's fairly solid support from the Constitution for the right of the individual to own firearms. Luckily, the courts have historically agreed with this. Gun control laws are complete bullshit.
     
    damian.hoffman, Aug 6, 2008 IP
  19. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #19
    Lol, I suppose our definitions of "people" may be different, but remember, this isn't Soviet Russia. We are a Constitutional Republic with a set of laws purposefully written to prevent another tyrannical government from taking over. The Constitution does not grant rights to the people; rather, it identifies the powers that the people grant to the government.

    In America, the government serves you.
     
    ncz_nate, Aug 6, 2008 IP
  20. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #20
    Stox: Is it ironic and pathetic that you have to edit and the text of something that was written in plain English to make it suit your position, because the actual words in the Constitution do not support your argument. The fact that you have the gall to call it plain English and and yet you could not manage to quote the text verbatim shows the absurdity of your position.

    You have the audacity to change the words so it appears give the right to a militia when in clearly gives that right to the people may work with idiots who don't know their rights, but to everyone you does is sad attempt to twist the words to suit your position.


    The right belongs to the people. The rationale may be have been to keep militias armed, but the Constitution gives the right to the people.
     
    browntwn, Aug 6, 2008 IP