Truth Rising 9/11 terrorist US launches retaliatory strikes in the Middle East.

He did this so that Americans may not reap benefits from these oil wells (As he thought of).
Though US did goof up in providing wrong justification for the war!
But the truth is, Saddam was a cruel man, and he got what he deserved.
But US is paying a HUGE cost for it's actions!

 

You can try to lie and say all you want but I stated that he started to destroy oil wells. You aknowledge that he did. I never stated a specific amount nor did I say he did it to all of them

 

I am not lying one bit, you stated 'all was fine' until he started to destroy them.

Starting a few on fire, is a far cry from destroying them, or making any difference to being 'just fine' before he did it.



I remember it clearly, the few fires started, even back then as your article states barely any damage was done = your point is not supported, not a single bit.

Nice try though

 

But the cost of cleaning up the mess was nearly $700 million!

 

You are taking things out of context to make your point and you are taking things that I say and putting more weight behind points that I made then what were intended. You are just debating by twisting words and taking things out of context.

 

I am not taking anything out of context or twisting.

You said it, not me.

According to you, all the oil wells were fine until Saddam started destroying them. Well only a few were set on fire, doesn't support your post one bit.

Sorry, try again when you have some actual facts that support your cause.

 

Yea I said things and Yea you are twisting them so try again.
You are ignoring my main points and focusing on minor things that I said and taking things out of context. I never said all were destroyed or that all were fine. Look up what a hyperbole is.

Also I did mention a lot of other things. A lot of way more relevant things that you could be debating but you choose to focus on petty little things that have nothing to do with the debate except to drive it off topic.

 

Not twisting one thing, you posted the above.

As far as you thinking you posted anything else that was a 'main point' or 'relevant' no actually you spewed nothing more than garbage, about how you are smarter than most of the US and the rest of the world.

About the extent of your 'logic' in this debate.

 

If you're going to take the excuse that a dictator gave to invade his neighbors and use it as the basis of your argument, shouldn't you try to prove it? To me it is somewhat shameful that you would accept Saddam's excuses without a shred of proof and use them in an argument against your own country. It's not that you are being critical of your country that bothers me, it is that your standards are so low for the information you will use to support the arguments against your country while the standards of information to support your country are very high.

 

I was not using it as an excuse, I was showing how it is not a reason, you chose to take it as I was pro Saddam.

There are plenty of articles on the subject if you truly want to find out for yourself, that however does not change the fact that Saddam at least complained about it 'yet' you bring it up as a reason because some other country 'might' steal Iraq's oil.

You also are merging 'country' with 'government' they are not fully the same. I can hate the current government while loving my country, can you?

I find it shameful for those who can not as it's not what our country was founded upon........

I take it you still CAN NOT answer a simple question.

 

You and guerilla have used the slant drilling reason as though it were fact.

I have looked, and all I could find were people citing allegations by Saddam, no real proof. Of course Saddam had to come up with some bullshit reason to invade. He couldn't just say "I'm an asshole".

I apply the same standards to pieces of information that I use in an argument against my country as to ones for my country. You do not.

 

There are tons of articles on the web, do a Google.

Hmm yet he went to the UN, the US and the Arab countries to try to settle it first. There is evidence, but again that does not matter you based your opinion on another country 'might' steal oil, 'might' is a whole lot weaker than someone publicly stating it's going on 'proof or not'

You most certainly do NOT.

This case is a PERFECT example.

I listen to experts, when the experts on our side, in the US say the executive branch is full of shit, sorry yes I will take the experts sides over the Administration. Most sane people would.

 

I did. Would you please help? If you're going to keep stating that Kuwait was slant drilling as fact, just because Saddam accused them of it, isn't the burden sort of on you to offer some credible source showing that they indeed were?

Saying another country might steal the oil was completely a thought that came from my own mind. I offered it as an attempt to show that there were MANY hypothetical scenarios to consider when making a decision of whether or not to go into Iraq. I was trying to inject some nuance into the argument but it appears I have failed, through no fault of my own. My main point is that the calculus for an invasion decision was a very complicated one. You cannot reduce it to one question as you are trying to do, and then proceed to hammer that question in your sledgehammer style. No matter how much you try to reduce the decision of going into Iraq to one that is capable of being argued in sound bites and platitudinal terms, it cannot be done. I'm sorry that we don't live in world that is a simple as the US being evil and all of our enemies being good guys, almost by virtue of us not liking them, if the world were that simple I think it would be a lot easier to talk to you.

 

Sigh...
Yet again the fact DOES NOT matter if they were or not. You used the possibility that another country 'might' steal Iraq's oil as a reason, yet you want proof that a country was stealing from Iraq via slant drilling. There is article after article on it, I have read many that speak of the equipment used, etc, etc. It's a bit hard to find that years later

Not every news article is on the web, if you want to be so anal about seeing actual 'proof' when it does not matter in this situation by all means search Google.

Sigh....
I know you chose to use it as a reason, as to which I showed you why it CAN NOT be one, or you have to also state Saddam had reason himself.

Of course there is going to be other reasons, but here again you FAIL bringing up Saddam not allowing the UN inspectors to do their job which was FALSE.

You were left with 'Saddam was a bad guy' you claim I use 'sledge hammer tactics' not at all, I use logic and facts, something you appear to have a problem with.

I do NOT think the US is evil, again trying to put shit out there that is FALSE.
Use facts and do not distort, do not have double standards and your arguments would be a bit better.

 

Yes it does matter. And I did not use the possibility that another country might steal their oil as a "REASON". I used it as one of the many things to consider. Iraq gave us adequate reason by invading its neighbor and then 13 years of non-compliance. That is not something that needs to proven, it's known by everyone.

Not swallowing information used by propagandists(I don't mean you, I think you are probably just a victim of them) like it is candy is not being anal. It is having as high of a standard for the information that I use in an argument against my government as I do for my government.

 

Then by all means search google, it still does not matter as you used a 'might' to be stronger than a charge being thrown out there.

Hmmm invading a neighbor by many accounts that the US gave him clearance to, by many accounts he did have a right to do. Non 'compliance' yet at the end when backed into a corner he was bending over taking it up the axx. This is again where you have your facts skewed..

I do not use propagandist information, far from it.

I use EXPERTS from the US, EXPERTS from the CIA, EXPERTS from the UN, EXPERTS who in most cases speak of facts and NOT propaganda like governments use!

No you take information that is pro the US government as bible w/o any real proof, while not taking expert testimony that is against the US government with any real credibility.

I do not use leftist or right winged sources, so sorry try again.

 

We gave him clearance to? By many accounts? Your credibility has been spent with me. You seem to think that you can make any claims you want to support dictators and enemies of the US, as long as you proclaim them loudly and boldly, then they are fact. Sorry but it doesn't work like that.

You used the same argument that the dictator used to invade his neighbor, yet refuse to offer a credible source to back it up.

Which experts confirmed that Kuwait was slant drilling?

I do not. I'm pretty objective in my pursuit to learn. I don't have an agenda that I work backwards from when gathering information. You are starting out with a goal, to show how awful the US is in their decision to go to Iraq, you start mounting your "case" backwards, starting from that goal.

 

You honestly have no idea of the situation at all do you?
I am not supporting Dictators, I am speaking the truth, you know facts. You might try learning something, as far as 'credibility' goes, the problem is I actually know a bit about the situation, unlike you.

Oh give me a break.
YOU are the one who brought up Iran possibly stealing oil from Iraq as a reason to invade Iraq, at which case I stated to throw your piss poor stance out of balance the fact that Saddam accused Kuwait of slant drilling which is stealing oil. There is article after article on the subject, yet again do some research as it's obvious you know pretty much nothing on the situation.

Yet AGAIN even 'if' it was not the truth it DOES NOT matter as you pulled out of YOUR ASS that Iran 'might' steal Iraq's oil as a reason to invade, a reason that is FAR WEAKER than the case of Saddam 'true or not' claiming and going before the world that Kuwait was ACTIVELY slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields.

Are you a broken record? I am speaking of my entire stance on the situation in Iraq NOT slant drilling. Yet again IT DOES NOT matter if they were or not as your piss poor logic was disputed using the fact that Saddam actively stated they were not a 'chance' that Iran 'might' steal oil from Iraq. Yep your reasoning that we should invade Iraq to protect their oil from evil Iran is so swell, but the fact that Saddam accused Kuwait for slant drilling means nothing.

My god man give it a rest, and STOP pulling shit out of your ass AND distorting!

Not at all, I am not 'going backwards' I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning and I unlike most of the US was correct

Again you are trying to change the topic, YOU brought up protecting oil from possibly being stolen as a reason to invade, at which point I brought up slant drilling which broke your piss poor stance and ripped it into shreds. Instead of admitting that you have failed to answer if country X can use the situation for war wouldn't country Z as well, and since then have danced around the facts like a twisted little jig.



BTW the US giving Saddam the go ahead, how anyone who has looked into the situation at all could not know this little tid bit is startling.
One second search of Google, simply to give you the basics. More of the story has been posted by the big news agencies, try doing some research would you?

http://www.bigeye.com/073103.htm

This was in response to diplomatic efforts, be them true or fake during the build up to Saddam invading Kuwait.

As far as 'many' thinking Saddam had reason to invade, well you surely would appear to think so, after all Iran 'might' invade Iraq to steal their oil giving us reason to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait

There are tons of articles on the subject, sorry not all are available for free on the web. I wish they were, it's simply not a reality that all news articles from that old are available for free on the web!

Saddam was a butchering asshole, he however was a butchering asshole who kept Iraq together. Like him or not, believing lies or not believing the truth does not make him any worse or better, it simply makes it knowing the entire picture, and you know FACTS.

 

You find an article that gives credible evidence of Kuwait's slant drilling and I"ll buy it and post it here. All the free ones suck because they don't support your argument. The free ones are written by apologists and US haters that only reiterate Saddam's accusations.

 

Umm actually most of the 'free ones' do support Saddam's stance NOT mine.

Did you read what you posted above I mean come on.

So which one is it? They either do support my argument, or they don't?

BTW you fail yet to still see what my argument is, my argument DOES NOT matter if Saddam was factually correct or not. An active accusation of someone slant drilling their oil is MUCH MORE POWERFUL than pulling out of ones ass that another country 'might' steal Iraq's oil so we should go in there and save it for them before that evil Iran steals it.

That was my point, for the billionth time WHO CARES if the accusations are true or not? The only reason you do is because it takes the focus off of your own piss poor stance and failure to answer a simple question.

If country X can use something to justify war, can not country Z?