do you think soldiers are heroes or the losers ?

I guess it depends on the branch and time period. When I was in (prior to, during, and after the first gulf war), they were paying us bonuses (for my rate, aka type of job) to re-enlist. Nobody was turned down, even though some should have been for one reason or another. They even kept people in after known drug offenses, until they finally implemented the zero tolerance policy, for real.

 

Actually the military in the United States is the highest respected institution.

 

There are lots of heroes in the US army:

SERGEANT FIRST CLASS (SFC) ROBERT GROFF
SFC Groff's bravery in the face of 250 well-armed insurgents saved the lives of numerous Soldiers and civilians. For his heroism, SFC Groff was awarded the Bronze Star with "V" Device for Valor.

SERGEANT (SGT) JASON MIKE
In keeping with the finest traditions of military heroism, SGT Mike's actions saved the lives of three wounded Soldiers and numerous convoy members. For his heroism, SGT Mike was awarded the Silver Star.

SECOND LIEUTENANT (2LT) GERALD WOLFORD
2LT Wolford's actions served to inspire other Soldiers on the battlefield and motivate his section to continue the fight despite physical injury, vehicle damage and fatigue.
For his heroism, 2LT Wolford was awarded the Silver Star.

STAFF SERGEANT (SSG) MATTHEW ZEDWICK
SSG Zedwick exposed himself to a hail of enemy fire to rescue his squad leader from a burning HMMWV. For his heroism, SSG Zedwick was awarded the Silver Star.

And NO... they didnt get paid for rescuing their fellas, they could just hide and do nothing...

 

ummm i hate to break it to you but they DO actually get payed...its the #1 rea$on people join the U$ army...

it has NOTHING to do with patrioti$m because if you took away the financial incentive the US army would cea$e to exi$t...we both know this is reality...

you make it sound like they were in other peoples countries shooting at local civilians and bombing their countries and livelyhoods for free? not so and this is super obvious...

as for the "acts of heroi$m" it all fades when you take in to account that the enemy army or insurgent forces really fight for FREE (ok maybe they get food?) but you get my picture...also enemy soldiers fight with MUCH less hardware and in much worse conditions and did i say they do it for FREE? they too pull wounded people out of bombed buildings ect ect...

sorry i cant view highly payed mercenaries as anything heroic it simply does not float...in my opinion mercenaries like to whine about their "heroic" "peace efforts" and they will always find an audience in the home crowd to listen to their distorted lies and "patriotism"

 

and worldwide is the least respected army in the world...no hate or propaganda its just fact...

 

Atvking, you speak as if you have the weight of "fact" and authority, but in truth, factually, your points rest on a position of complete ignorance.

A starting E1*** makes $1246 per month, plus upkeep (housing, food). There are other pay add-ons, such as hazardous duty, family allowances, etc. Now, in many parts of the world, this may seem like a tremendous amount of money. but in terms of a living wage in the United States, this pay is meager. Bottom line, the core of the U.S. military - its enlisted personnel - is not in it "for the money."

Why people join is as varied as there are people who serve. I know my example was not unique - 30+ years ago, I was a runaway kid, who lived just this side of total oblivion, and the military provided a leg up. I know some who serve because serving has been part of their family for generations. I know some who serve because they feel a deep sense of patriotism, and this is the way they feel they can best serve their country. Many, many reasons.

To say it comes down to "highly paid mercenaries" is ignorance. "No hate or propaganda, just fact..."

*** E1 is the starting enlistment level for anyone coming in, unless they have some prior training (military academy, ROTC, etc.). Most people simply come in as E1.

 

From a survey of U.S. citizens it was the most respected.

 

yes you are right.. In the Bible, God's beloved Israel fought many battles and killed many people but God was on their side.. The true soldier fights for his country.. the true soldier is courageous and knows no fear.. the true soldier knows the difference between right and wrong and knows who to kill and who to save.. the true soldier never kill innocent children. The true soldier never rape innocent girls and pregnant women, he never kill the aged, etc.. such a soldier lives even in death and such a soldier is a hero!

 

About the 4 examples I posted:

Even if they get paid no one told them to rescue their friends with the possibility of getting killed.
They could of left their friends to die but they chose to go and rescue em.
Its the difference between someone who does the regular and heroic stuff...

Im sure SERGEANT JASON MIKE wasnt paid for saving the lives of three wounded soldiers and numerous convoy members.

Did you get the point?

Wow man, 1200$ is awesome. Its like x6 times as much as we make in Israel.

The Israeli soldier gets ~200$ /month if he has a combat-related duty and only ~100$ if its not combat-related.
...and we must serve at least 3 years (18-21)...pffhh!

lolz

 

Sucks to be you then, doesn't it?


Actually, I doubt most people who join our all-volunteer military think much about the pay at the time of enlisting. Especially among the enlisted ranks. You can potentially make much more money outside of the military.

Reasons not to join:

• Lack of freedom - you are essentially "owned" by the government
• Hard on relationships/marriage
• A responsibility that many people, especially some young ones, don't want to have for themselves
• The risk of dieing
• Fighting for a cause in which you don't believe
• Lack of pay

From everyone, including myself, that I've known that joined, these were the reasons they were in the military:

• A sense of patriotism
• An opportunity to do "what's right"
• A sense of duty as an American
• A chance to grow and have responsibility
• The GI Bill (educational benefits)
• Health care coverage
• The opportunity to see the world
• Help with buying a house after getting out of the military

Pay is very low on the list. I don't actually remember any enlisted person excited about their "huge" paycheck. It was pretty much a non-issue for them.

 

But we kick S!

$200/month is what anyone earns writing one 500 word (1 hour?) article per day on DP

I second that

 

Did your fellow Serbian countrymen kill Bosnians, Croats and Albanians for free?

 

This looks like a soldier who is a hero IMO.



Been trying to avoid this thread like the plague. Iraq is an illegal, immoral war. People who intentionally go to Iraq, and participate in the occupation, subjugation and murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people NOT NAMED SADDAM HUSSEIN, are guilty of crimes themselves.

Just following orders wasn't good enough at Nuremberg when the Nazis tried to explain their participation at Auschwitz, and it's not good enough at Fallujah or Abu Grahaib.

News broadcast, the Iraqi government is now openly calling for a US withdrawal. There are no excuses left.

 

Heroes all the way...The few, the proud, the protector of freedom.

 

The Germans said something similar in 1939.

 

And the average Wermacht soldier and average American soldier were doing the same thing. I don't often agree with Charles Reese (do a search on this site for my response to his op-ed, for one, on "Christian" America), but here, I think he's got it right:

I don't know that I have yet seen Guerilla's bald feelings respecting veterans as much as with this thread:

with

Why? Aren't war criminals to be strung up, or die in shame, and not "taken care of?"

This is only one example of many as to why I have called "bullshit" routinely for some time now, as I see it. I understand from Guerilla's perspective, which is one that anything running counter to his wants and needs - e.g., city tax for a new stop sign at a kid's playground - is "tyranny," so, hell, there is no way he can stand by the average vet while the leaders in charge of their lives, and the lives of others, play god; but this latest spew angers me deeply.

America has been involved in both moral, and immoral causes.

Guerilla stands on ground wrest from its rightful native American owners by an immoral series of wars of expropriation, destruction and extermination - the right thing would be to pack up and leave.

Guerilla funds wars - he pays his taxes, so he indicates on the forum, and believes in following "the law" despite his "objection" to it. Why? Because he was ordered to, by the law? By his own logic, this makes him a war criminal.

You see, not all vets are rapacious, modern day SS analogues. Here we are; doing the best we can with an imperfect world and a history we've created together. If Guerilla would spit on the Vietnam vet's grave, or the grave of an Iraq war veteran, I will not. End this war so that no more American families need to live the hell of a loved one, lost; so that no more Iraqi families need grieve the results of our unjust aggression.

Here's another perspective, not drawn from a hatred of American servicepeople:

http://www.mfso.org/article.php?id=1197

Bring them home.

 

If only all people who oppose our current and past foreign policies were this reasonable.

 

no you did not get the point...the foreign soldier does all this for FREE...he gets drafted and does the heroics for FREE....no 1200$ incentive to join the army...1200$ is a HUGE salary in my country...we get 0$ as in ZERO

 

as was the german army in ww2 from a survey of german citizens...

FACT: the foreign soldier fights for free = he gets force drafted and is lucky to get food...

FACT: the US mercenary fights for 1200$/month start salary this is a decent salary even in some EU countries not to mention 3rd world countries where this is a HUGE salary

what part is ignorance? please educate me

still we all did it for free, unlike the US soldier who gets 1200$/month...your point was? right you didnt have one...


whats up with people who cant see the truth when its rubbed in their noses?...i love how every US mercenary supporter ignores the FACT that the "enemy" fights for FREE and is force drafted yet the US mercenary joins on his own will for 1200$/month min. guaranteed salary...its amusing to repeat it over and over again and watch people come up with unrelated answers and lame comebacks...

why dont you just admit it: if it was not for the money the US army would be no more...

patriotism?heroics? hahahahaha! they seem to cost 1200$/month...

 

Foreign policy is a fancy way of saying pillage, rape, murder and empire. Your version of reasonable includes bowing your head when the topic of death and destruction comes up. You lose your voice, you won't make eye contact. If subservience, shame and fear are "reasonable", then I am absolutely UNREASONABLE on the subject of human life and aggressive violence.

I can appreciate a soldier who wants to defend this country. Who honestly believes in defending the Constitution and following the pledge of allegiance. But there is a big difference between defending your country and performing aggression as an Imperial foot soldier.

I don't paint *all* soldiers with a broad brush when it comes to their role or action, although the copy/paste master would have us believe that.

As far as people who had relatives who served in illegal, immoral wars, that's their problem. I'm not going to pay homage to someone who looks for a fight or does something knowing full well it is wrong.

At the end of the day, this is about cowardice. Not necessarily of the troops, but of people to say, "if the government is doing something wrong, I will not support it, and I will not support the people who support it".

Everyone is so scared to stand up and say that killing Iraqis and occupying their country is wrong. I remember the atom bomb thread, and people justifying annihilating civilian populations to win a military war. That's terrorism and people can't even recognize it.