Why slavery is OK. There are millions of slaves, worked, bought, and traded each day.

Actually, I am cognizant of the chains that bind me. It's folks like you, who do not understand that their wealth and production are being siphoned off that are the true fish in the game.

Like I said, the idiot response is to say, "why don't you move". The answer is, if the system is unjust, why should I have to? And in reality, the entire world functions under fiat central banking and participates in the warfare state, except perhaps Somalia, where it could be possible to take and hold (for a short time) some free land through homesteading.

The shape shifting reptilian nonsense is a trolling technique. Because you do not understand how central banking works, how fractional reserve banking works, you make ignorant accusations of conspiracy to defame my position.

But it's really just a cover up for your lack of knowledge. And for that, I pity you.

 

Surely the idiots response is to stay where they are being enslaved when they have the choice and ability to leave. What kind of slave is afforded the ability to leave anyway?

"waa waa, I don't like standing here"
"why don't you stand over there?"
"why should i?, waa waa, I don't like standing here, waa waa"

 

And it won't slip by this time, either, as Guerilla misstated what I wrote the first time he said this:

 

There is no ability to leave. Again, you are ignorant to the problem, and I can't understand why you are posting to this thread about my position.

You can't leave. You're getting f**ked in the UK. People are getting f**ked in France, Germany and Russia. China, Japan and Indonesia. Australia, New Zealand and Mexico.

There is "no where to go".

So there are three choices.

1) Stay ignorant
2) Fight
3) Capitulate

So your position is that when you are being bullied, one should run away?

Anyone else who wants to criticize my slavery position, be prepared to defend fractional reserve and central banking. If you can't or won't, then you don't have a leg to stand on challenging me on my stance.

 

Actually, that's also untrue, for the one reason I've already given: Guerilla has said:

And I will reiterate:

I will also reiterate:

Guerilla equates living under a state to existing as a slave, so there won't be an ability to convince him he isn't, but to all others, I should think common sense is sufficient.

 

Of course it could be that this threat is entirely imagined.... But that couldn't possibly be the case, could it.

So now you are a slave and a victim of bullying? My position is clear, If something is happening and you don't like it, And are free to remove yourself, the sane option is to remove yourself. And your abilty to remove yourself invalidates your position of a slave.

 

Actually, you're living off of your children, grand children and great grand children's future promise to pay taxes for the war and welfare you enjoy today.

Do you think the debt # doesn't mean anything? That it will never have to be paid (one way or another)?

The government's ability to borrow past it's revenue, is it's ability to tax in the future. That's the collateral, or promise to pay.

In that regard, you're actually participating in a system that will put your future generations into forced servitude. Oh, the plot thickens.

 

Ah, clever tactic. Now your lack of knowledge on how the monetary system works globally and domestically is all imagination. Funny stuff. I thought you were an atheist?

Right, so your solution is to run away and allow it to continue, not to fight and change the system. Got that.

But as mentioned several times already, there is nowhere to run. So the option is to live on your knees or die on your feet. I'll take the latter.

 

Guerilla, of course I believe the debt is a problem. As you will see from our respective "locations," if you're "surrounded by IP," I do not brook platitudes. Calling American citizenship as, well,

Is in my opinion a ridiculous emotional appeal and, quite honestly, nonsense.

There are many things that happen to us, living in a modern nation-state (with both words meaning something, and, more, something different), that we don't like, on a daily basis. I can work to change things I don't like, and if it gets "bad enough," I may leave. This isn't slavery. It is citizenship in a society.

You are an anarchist, from all that I can tell from your history here. You have long made your point clear, namely that "any kind of life under a state is slavery." In saying so, in my opinion, we are stretching definitions to the snapping point, and I don't find a lot of use in such a practice.

 

Dude, you seriously need to stop obsessing over my user profile. It's not healthy behavior.

As far as the debt, I don't think you understand it at all, or you would not be cheerleading for Obama, and his endless New Deal-ism.

Criticizing me may win you points with some on the forum, but it won't win you any points in an argument based on fact and process.

Right, you've made your point on that several times. Can you debate me on the issue of slavery through taxes and debt?

You can't go anywhere to escape debt and taxes. You're a slave almost everywhere.

Right, so basically, it's personal attacks as usual, let's bring up the names you have for me, my posting history and everything else but the topic at hand.

Snapping point, lot of use... is that the beg-out clause on this argument because you have absolutely no concept of how the government funds itself, and thus cannot offer a principled position on how to address it, or whether my claim of slavery is legitimate?

Living voluntarily under a sate is not slavery. Consent of the governed and all of that good stuff. But when we're paying 30 times as much taxes to George Bush as we did to King George, and the polls show that people have lost faith in this government, and government elected officials choose not to carry out the mandate they have been given by their constituents, then the state is not governing with consent, it is operating from a monopoly on power, force and law. And that, is unjust.

Again, I will repeat and ask you to address. Do you believe our monetary and fiscal system enslaves us, yes or no, and please explain your position in at least a little detail.

 

Guerilla, I'm not looking at your profile. I am looking at the board - your "location" is located at the top right of your posts, in the event you have forgotten this.

Actually, I'm cheerleading for no one. As I've said many times, I am cynical that anyone will be able to curb the toilet we've become. Of all the candidates out there, looking at our country and the world today, I'd say Obama stands a chance to do some good better than others.

Have no idea what you are saying here, except that it is an empty statement. I don't seek points. I don't seek "friends," either. If I see something I agree with, I will say; if I see something I disagree with, I will also say. Apparently, this is a problem for you, and I can't help you with that.

I already have. As on other issues, you may not like the answer given, but this doesn't amount to a non-answer. I do not equate paying taxes to a field hand, 1848, summer, south, and all the other descriptors you've attempted to employ.

I guess the world sucks then, buddy. Taxes exist under all states, and, again, it appears to me you find living under a state system intolerable. My view of the world is a bit more positive.

You have said the state only exists by coercion, and nothing good emanates from it. You have argued for the privatization of police, defense, fire forces, and a host of other comments. These are facts, and your points of view. I have concluded, therefore, that you are a market-anarchist. By the same logic, you have called me a socialist:

I don't take offense, really, at least not any more. I disagree, but I do not consider it a personal attack.

I also do not routinely call you "psychotic," "mentally deranged," suffering from "paranoia" and "narcissism," as a few examples, as you have all too often done with me. I would call this "personal attack."

Having trouble distinguishing a personal attack seems to be getting around, if Mia, yourself and Homebiz are to be examples. 3 out of the plenitude of folks on the forum, well, let's just not call that a statistical significance. Perhaps the three of you can join forces to come up with a better attempt?

Well, I already have, Guerilla. Most broadly, we've had this conversation many times, over many months, over many threads. We live in society, and not a state of nature. We agree to rules of play. One of those rules of play is that despite the fact everything that transpires in that society may not be my cup of tea, on any given day, I don't lose it and seek a revolution in the name of "fighting tyranny." Say, a new level of sales tax in the midwest city I live in - HOLY HELL! I'M A SLAVE! Isn't my first thought. It gets bad enough, I will work to change things. Or, leave, as I am free to do, for one example. Is this that difficult?

 

excellent point! the average american spends 6.3months/year paying off various forms of tax and 5.7 months/year working for himself...the question: where is the line between freedom and slavery?

(keep in mind that not only is the salary you make taxed but also EVERYTHING you buy with your money!)

i guess you could call it rent and not tax?

before 9/11 if you put 1.000.000$ cash in a shoe box and exchanged it today for Euros you would loose a whopping 630.000 of todays Euros!!! This is 992.000 of todays $$! its called inflational tax and this is not including the price of gold and deflation of the eur so in reality its even worse

note: USD before 9/11 was 1.23 Eur now its 0.63 do the math!

lets face it if you dont pay the extortion money they send you to a gulag to get raped in the ass...

 

NPT, I'm interested in discussing why my comment on slavery is wrong, based upon your understanding of the banking system.

Your attempts at personalizing the conversation by rehashing old quotes and arguments from months ago is not fooling anyone that you have no knowledge of the topic under discussion. You tried a similar tact in the socialized medicine thread when I confronted you on a lack of basic economic understanding.

That said, again I will reiterate. I will discuss the tax and debt system as a form of slavery, and the enjoyment of people today, is being had at the cost in sweat and sacrifice of future generations.

 

That is apparent. I, on the other hand, am interested in discussing the notion of slavery, based on a notion of slavery; in other words, slavery as it is commonly understood - with key components being things like involuntary capture, purchase, or birth into a state of slavery; forced labor; the inability to leave or refuse the forced labor; and uncompensated labor. I reject your equating the paying of taxes to:

In fact, as I said, I find such a comparison repugnant. What happened to the children of Africa, in their experience as slaves, is nothing like what American citizens endure on a daily basis, and I repeat my contention with your saying so.

No, but then, you know this. Your stand is that of a market-anarchist, from my assessment of your posts on this forum. This means you do not see any kind of state action - such as taxes - as anything less than abject tyranny. It is germane to the discussion, and it is not a "personal attack" - any more than your aforementioned naming me as a "Berkeley socialist."

As to my "not fooling anyone that have no knowledge of the topic under discussion;" yep, you say this a lot - most recently in the thread where you attempted to justify the theft of another's work. I said there, and I repeat here:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=8361996&postcount=245

I must have missed it, and apparently all others in that thread did as well. Care to provide proof?

Yes, as I have said, I will agree with you, we have a problem. Much as I have thought since Reagan's expansionist presidency, as I've discussed earlier in another thread. That was nearly 30 years ago, now, and I thought on these things then, so, no, your Mises.org thoughts are not new to me.

I simply do not call it slavery, for the many reasons I have stated several times. We have different priorities, and therefore place different evaluations on many of the notions discussed - leading you to name the notion of taxation and the state one thing, and myself, another.

We will go round and round, Guerilla. I do tire of it, and I find it is the kind of fatigue that comes from endeavor that is not all that useful; particularly when you rely on "everyone knows ...etc.," a technique Mia has attempted as well of late - I will have to provide an "everyone knows," I suppose, since this seems to be the new tactic of the moment. In the words of someone (a member in substantive agreement with most of your views, by the way - but disagrees with the way you generally proceed; redacted to preserve privacy):





Take it for what you will. I include it in the hope you can sit back, reflect, and consider that you might have a good deal to learn. Your argument is understood, but rejected.

 

LOL, so I see it's just more of the same, except this time you showed me screenies so I would feel bad that someone who agrees with me ideologically likes your posting style better?

What is this, kindergarten?

Still nothing on banking, so you still haven't addressed my argument.

Hmm, well I had to explain what capitalism meant just a few weeks ago, I'm really surprised that you now think you're fully aware of the "Mises.org thoughts".

Holy Crow. How many times are you going to milk that one? I'm thinking to invest in the Kleenex brand for all of the boo hoo hoo'ing you do about things said months and months ago, and which you repost almost daily.

Is it possible to call yourself a victim when you're constantly picking at and exposing your sores to everyone? Do you really have this little self respect?

Why redact? You probably made it up. It's not hard to save a page, type whatever you want, open it in a browser and make a screenie. Name names or leave these childish popularity games in your inbox. I appreciate those who appreciate me, and those who do not, so be it. I'm not in the "win by numbers" or "who has the most friends" game.

You don't understand my argument well enough to reject it. Just more personal attacks, screen shots to stroke your ego and blather about posts from months ago.

No surprise. Same old NPT. Holds everyone else accountable, and yet his comments and lack of sincerity/knowledge is above reproach.

Hey NPT, next post how about you tell everyone for the 3rd, or is it 4th time today that I called you a Berkley Socialist 5 months ago! I'm sure they would all like to read it one more time. And for good measure, make sure you include how I wrote that you were psychotic and deranged. I don't think people have read you crying about that 100 times yet, and it was only 4 months ago, so I know you're still smarting from it.

But whatever you do, don't address my argument head on. Don't let me expose you for having no knowledge on the subject you're confronting me on. Nope, stay on the attack. That's how you win!

 

Good lord, Guerilla, after the experience of the IP thread, that you would still attempt the same tactics here only speaks to pathos.

Not sure what part of "credibility" you find equates to style. In other words, the individual finds I post with more credibility, though he shares much of your views with regards to political economics. I mention this, because your methods have been discovered, finally, for what they are. Much like here, endless loops of misstatements, distortions, and flat out untruths. Say, along the lines of:

Ya see, deliberately misstating something I wrote is called, by most folks, a "lie." Which the above screenshots speak to, or "lack of credibility." As I said, you may reflect on this and learn from it, or reject it; your ascribing it to something other than what it is isn't surprising, and the wheels go round and round.

You are having trouble reading, I see, as I've gone over this several times. My usage of "slavery" is not included in your usage, and I have said why, several times. Though you would like to dictate the terms of discussion, I reject your logic as false: Much like saying, "well, until you equate my notion of the triune godhead with the color blue, you are avoiding the discussion," we work in different languages, here. Not sure you can understand this, but apparently others can.

Well, now that's two statements, the other referring to my alleged "loss" in the socialized medicine thread. Guessing it feels good, to say it out loud? Might it not feel better, in your world of DP "wins" and "losses," to provide proof?

<<Sigh>>.

In other words, for the final time, you seemed to be really, really upset at my usage of the word "anarchist." I reminded you that you believe, and have routinely called me a "socialist." I don't get really weepy over it, don't run to Rob to try to get you banned for a "campaign of personal attacks," etc., and so forth, as you have done. Your anarchism relates to your statements here. Hence, my dear friend, it is germane.

Uh, yep, it's not out of honoring the privacy of the sender; it's a - what the hell is it you said? On all counts. It's a conspiracy. I understand there's a movie coming out about it.

I'm always game to do a mea culpa, if I've done something wrong. Please let me know how, or where, and I'd be glad to admit my error and apologize.

Actually, the comments were from a fortnight ago, so you are misrepresenting the truth again. Do you believe this somehow helps your arguments? Again, you constantly whine and cry about being "personally attacked," but seem to leap to whatever inappropriate attacks come burbling up from your backbrain whenever you feel threatened.

Uh, sure. Whatever you do, don't read, because that really hurts the attempt, I guess.

You'll have to have the last word on this, Guerilla. Rounds and rounds - at my 5 posts/day to your 18 posts/day, I find there is another world out there beyond DP.

Bottom line, I find your equating American citizenship with slavery, as it existed, say, in the antebellum South, to be ridiculous, and repugnant. Call it unfounded, call it emotionality, call it whatever you will. I call your doing so your usual.

 

I just skim read, but it looked like yet ANOTHER post without anything addressing my statement that our banking system and government debt makes us all slaves.

Big surprise. Big on theatrics, short on meat.

 

LOL - well, you'll have to deal with your shortage of meat on your own, I guess, since I know for myself, I can only repeat so many times. Since your hands don't seem too tired, perhaps you can redress your shortage of meat by further repeat?

Have a good night, buddy. Get some rest.

 

Still no response to the matter of slavery. I guess we really don't know a lot about the "mises.org thoughts" or how banking and government debt works.

 

Slavery is never ok.. the thread title made me think of an old quote I saw about migrant workers. "We used to own our slaves, now we just rent them."