Bob Barr attacks John McCain and Barack Obama

Wow. Ron Paul wants to start a revolution? Amazing. Just one problem, the world is going to forget him a year from now. In fact, the American public who actually vote where it counts rather than on online polls have already disregarded him. too bad.

 

I don't think the world will forget him. His Campaign for Liberty is only a few weeks old, and it already has 65,000 members. His book, "The Revolution" has been on the NYT best seller list for 6 or 7 weeks.

Unlike a vacuous moron like Obama, Paul's impact will be felt for generations.

 

We'll see about that. Obama is the future president of the United States. Ron Paul is a person who tried to be the president but failed, miserably. Grapes are sour when they cant be eaten.

 

Obama may be the President, but that doesn't make him an honest or good man.

It just means that the same fools who elected Bush twice, have once again exercised their stupidity.

 

Of course. Ron Paul is the only candidate who is honest and smart, the rest are all fools.

 

Ron Paul is naive, and honest. If this were America, 1890, or a miniscule republic in a Groucho Marx film, we'd be golden.

 

Honestly, i have always thought of Ron Paul as honest and revolutionary. I may not agree with everything he has to say, but i have a lot of respect for him and his ability to think out of the box.

As far as his supporters are concerned, they are just annoying and immature. That is why they are only found online and not in the real voting booth, where it counts.

 

Do you like lumping all supporters into one group? In my eyes that would make you annoying and immature, I however wont say all of Obama's supporters are.

RP had tons of off line support as well.

You fail to realize and understand he did damn well considering he was stone walled in most cases, mislabeled as an isolationist by the republican party and so much more.

Most of RP's supporters were actually knowledgeable about what's going on, the same thing can't be said for the supporters of the other guys Most of them are simply supporting the party line or who their friends said are good, the same old same old as usual.

 

I have a lot of respect for him as well, Ganpat, in terms of the consistency of his point of view, and I, personally, am grateful for the dialogue that has come as a result of his phenomenon - and I will not dismiss it as anything less.

I just think many of his notions, if they are to work in a real world, literally require an America (and world) from over a century ago, or an incredibly small republic - Plato's, perhaps, in its abstraction.

There are a couple of supporters that I have met - one on this forum, Grim, in my opinion - that have seemed to have sincerely thought things through on this. I must honestly say that virtually all others I've actually met in life, or online, either have no idea what he actually stands for - the hippies at Whole Foods, where I work, really keyed about him, until you talk about many of his ideas, for instance - or they have rose-colored glasses on when it comes to following out the implications of many of his ideas.

Edited to add: Posted before seeing Grim's post: Hey, Grim. Don't blow my praise. (Sarcasm).

 

1.2 million showed up to vote, and more military men and women contributed to Paul than to Obama in the primaries.

The "box" as you put it, is your narrow obsession with politics of personality. What does Obama stand for? The Civil Liberties he votes against? Peace, and the war he continues to fund? Maybe it's the Constitution, and his attack on the 1st Amendment through the thought crimes bill?

I'm just curious to know, from your box perspective, what does Obama stand for? How will he be any different than Bush?

 

Read again, I said i respect Ron Paul's ability to think out of the box.

 

Yeah, I interpreted that to mean that you think he has integrity.

So since Obama gets all these more votes, please explain to me why. What does he stand for? I've been asking on this forum for 6 months and no one can answer that question...

 

Well, I wrote about that in another thread, but i'd be glad to repeat. Here is why Obama gets more votes than Ron Paul. America has realized their mistake with Bush. He went into a war that wasn't quite necessary and definitely wasn't conducted effectively. Costs are up and morale is down. People want change and want to vote for anything that is the opposite of Bush. In comes Obama and Hillary. They are the same on 95% of the issues. So it comes down to personality. Obama wins there hands down.

Now, why not Ron Paul? Well, it is all good to present out of the box ideas when you are in a position to implement them. But if you're not, then you're not going to get elected. A presidency campaign is like a job interview. Now if you were the manager of a company and you were interviewing some guy, and the first thing he said was, I am going to change your company completely and do things totally differently, then would you hire him? Some may, but most people will not. There lies the problem with Ron Paul. And then there are the fans. It is great to support a candidate passionately, but when fans start to mock and question the patriotism of people who don't agree with them, it reflects on the candidate. I am an independent liberal and i have had republicans criticize me for not voting with them, and i've had Ron Paul supporters get in my face for not voting with them. So guess what, i am not voting republican or Ron Paul.

Now it comes down to the presidency. I can give it to you in writing that Obama won't be able to do half of what he said he would. No candidate can. Promises are great but the fact is that to make any great idea into a law, it needs to pass through congress where it gets held up for a long time. So whatever changes are made, have to be subtle. The US CANNOT and WILL NOT pull out of Iraq in the next few years. It will be counter productive and they will be abandoning the millions of Iraqis who did support them, thereby making more enemies. However, with Bush in power of if McCain comes in power, the Iraqis know that they can take the american presence in Iraq for granted. With Obama in power, they dont know that, so now, they take more responsibility for their government. That's the advantage of a Democrat in power.

The same goes for Afghanistan. As far as Iran is concerned, they know that the republicans are itching to go to war with them, but with Obama, they know that isn't the case, so they will be less defensive and more open to diplomacy.

Obama is popular because apart from being a very capable and smart speaker, he is the lesser of the evils as far as our choices are concerned.

I personally do NOT think Obama has it right on immigration, but I like his platform on the war and healthcare. I do not know what he will do as president, but i know what McCain will do and i know that i don't want that. Obama is a choice by default.

As far as Ron Paul is concerned, he was more like an independent running on a republican ticket. His ideas would bring about too much change, which people are not ready for. The reality is that people like their status quo. Masses never want big changes to their lives. Ron Paul would have never had his ideas pass through congress and that would result in him being an ineffective president. He is great in an ideological world, but not in the real world.

There, i hope i have answered your question on why Obama.

 

I keep hearing this 'too much change'

To me that sounds an awful lot like how most thought about our forefathers during the revolutionary war.

 

In addition to what I said about why people support Obama, here are a couple more things:

Obama has been very classy through his campaign. Hillary tried her best to drag him into a dogfight and yet he was a gentleman throughout. When the press tried to corner Hillary about the sniper remark in a live debate, he came out and defended her. Today, he said that no matter what, he will not question the integrity or patriotism of another candidate in the campaign, and he NEVER went negative with his ads.

It is refreshing to see a candidate with some integrity and class. Over the years, politicians all over the world have given the field a bad name and it is refreshing to see someone come through who is actually different and classy.

 

I didn't ask "Why Obama". I don't care if he is classy. Prince Charles is classy.

I asked what Obama stands for. It's the question none of his cult followers can answer. On DailyKOS, they are convinced that Obama is acting like a typical lying dirtbag politician, and then when he gets elected, angelic Obama will suddenly heal the nation, the world and the universe.

So I ask again, "What does Obama stand for?"

Because I can tell you in a few short words what Ron Paul stands for.

America. The Republic. Freedom. Peace. and the Constitution.

And his 20 year Congressional record will back that up.

 

That's fantastic.

Now, specifically,

What is "America?"

What is "The Republic?"

What is "Freedom?"

What is "Peace?"

What is "the Constitution?"

 

I am going to answer this.

As soon as you answer my question posed months ago and which you have continually avoided.

What does Obama stand for?

We can work out definitions later.

 

I've already provided several answers, and several months ago, on what Obama's record indicates, and what he states he plans to do, that leads me to believe he's . You actually replied, though you didn't like the answer, so I would have thought you hadn't spaced this as well. Let me know if you need some help, again.

So, a sincere question was again posed. I hear a lot of talk about a lack of specifics, and a lot of hot air. I will ask again, and this isn't addressed specifically to my little buddy:

I tire of platitudes. What do these things mean to people - of all persuasions? Is there one definition for any of these? If not, what the hell does it mean to "stand" for each of these terms?

 

In my mind, Obama stands for a change in guard. He stands for youth, honesty, integrity and leadership. When I see Obama, i don't see a politician, i see a leader. And most of all, he stands for Unity. Unity of the democrats and unity of Americans.