Karzai threatens to send Afganistan Army into Pakistan

Sorry but I agree with GRIM. That doesn't prove anything.

Let's post the total # of Iraqis dead since 2002 vs. our troops. Or Afghanis and our troops.

Let's post the number of sanctions Iran has put on us.

Let's post the number of nukes we have given Iran, and the number of nukes we gave Israel.

We could play this game endlessly. 19 guys self terminated on 9/11/2001 murdering 3,000 American citizens. For that, it's likely more than a million human beings have died based on our response. Does that seem reasonable to you? How many more is enough?

 

You post the data to build a case against America almost every day. That game is a bit old.

It wasn't 19 guys, the planes were remote controlled, ask Alex.

What are we supposed to do when a "government" in a foreign country gives safe haven for a group of blood thirsty idiots that attacked us and killed 3000 people?

 

Well if you're talking about Afghanistan I have no problem with going in there, would have been nice if we didn't drop the ball though.

 

I'm saying that our nation is a cilivized one and when our government does heinous shit the people get upset. If we were actually as evil as people here and around the world try to make us out to be there would be no afghanistan. Because we abide by certain rules, such as going out of our way to avoid harming civilians, we are fighting at a disadvantage. I'm not saying we should get medeival on their asses, but if we did things wouldn't drag out as long.

It makes me think of a quote by Col. Kurtz.


"I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God... the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment. Because it's judgment that defeats us. "

 

We were justified to go into Iraq. Whether or not it was in our strategic interest, I don't know. The UN could of kept writing resolutions that Saddam would ignore until the end of time. At some point you have to actually do something that a thug like that will actually understand.

 

How was Iraq justified? there was no WMD, he was a dictator, but a dictator that the people loved....so why was it justified again?

 

Because he threw a large part of the world into a war against him and then he refused to abide by the terms of surrender or to abide by the will of the UN.
That shit went on for thirteen years, at some point you have to decide that writing a bunch of words isn't going to accomplish what you want.

 

Well...i've been through this before, after the Iran-Iraq war was finished, Kuwait launched a financial war on Iraq, and then started stealing its oil, which prompted Saddam to take action.

So.........what was the reason that invading Iraq was justified again?

 

It's not sinking in, so I will have to try harder.

Alex kisses you on the mouth while you sleep.

You may laugh, but Alex predicted 9/11, and that it would be blamed on Bin Laden well in advance. He did it on his weekly TV show. Footage should be on YouTube.

You mean our country? Where they trained to fly planes and we did nothing? Where NORAD was on stand down and we did nothing? Where Cheney lied in his testimony to the commission and we did nothing?

Where no one lost their job or was held accountable for numerous breakdowns in the intelligence chain and we did nothing?

Oh wait. You're talking about the toothless goat farmer army of poppy growers in Afghanistan. Regular criminal masterminds. I recall them offering to give OBL up if the US would show evidence of his involvement. Georgie declined, so now we have a 7 year war with nothing to show for it but death, debt and loss of reputation internationally.

That said, I'm all for going after Al Queda. How come we haven't prosecuted F*** All so far? How come we have 8 year old kids and Al Jazeera cameramen in Guantanamo, but no OBL?

Don't get me started on 9/11. I will go all Prison Planet on you.

 

No we were not. That was a war of aggression, under the Geneva Convention, it is a war crime. We do not have the right to arbitrarily choose which UN resolutions we will unilaterally enforce with military invasion.

If you think bankrupting America and expending all of the post-9/11 goodwill from around the world is strategic interest, then it was WONDERFUL!

That's not our job. The US army serves to defend the US, not to act as a global police force. We starved a half million kids to death over there. Seems to me our foreign policy was a bigger threat to the average Iraqi than Saddam was.

 

Big deal. One time, we gave the finger to the King of England, the ruler of the British Empire.

I won't argue Saddam was a good guy, but we had no moral authority to implement regime change.

What you want. Bankruptcy. Death. Mass Murder. Chaos.

Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, Massive Haliburton profits and $140 oil.

 

He wasn't a saint, but nor is he the devil many paint him to be. George Bush is worse. Heck, even Bill Clinton is.

 

So getting under bidded is a reason to attack someone but 13 years of UN Resolution violations isn't?

 

Just wanted to quote this.

 

They were stealing oil aswell as threatening him.

So again.........why is it justfified? it's not.

 

Well according to Thrax's logic it would be completely justified for us to attack OPEC countries because they are "waging a financial war" against us.

How would you have dealt with Saddam? Just let him not hold up his obligations after surrender and do what he wanted so he could encourage other nations to invade their neighbors, to not kill people, but pass out lollipops?(because only the US kills people)

 

The world agreed that Saddam was the bad guy. And anyone who isn't trying to apologize for Saddam in order to prove the evils of the US still think he was the bad guy.

 

The world? Who? USA, France, Germany, Australia and the UK? The 4th Reich? lol, don't make me laugh, the world is alot bigger than that, son.

 

Umm yet again before we invaded Saddam was taking it in the axx, weapons inspectors were able to go wherever they wished, whenever they wished.

I also love the failed logic of us being justified as Saddam was breaking UN resolutions, yet we ourselves side stepped the UN in order to invade.

 

I don't read everything Thraxed posts. I do like him posting to GTech though.

If I was the President? It's not my job to manage Saddam. That's not my mandate. The President is not the Commander-in-Chief of the country. He doesn't write legislation. He doesn't dictate domestic policy. He doesn't police the world, and he isn't global emperor.

As long as there was no pressing security threat to the US, why would Saddam be more my problem than Iran's? Turkey's? Saudi Arabia's? Israel's?

We gave the King of England the finger, man.