Just in:Fighting breaks out in northern Lebanon; 4 dead

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer Sun Jun 22, 3:05 PM ET


BEIRUT, Lebanon - Fighting broke out in northern Lebanon on Sunday between pro- and anti-government factions leaving at least four people dead and 29 wounded, security and medical officials said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080622/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon

Tensions have been on the rise for several days between government supporters in Tripoli's Bab el-Tabaneh district and the opposition in neighboring Jabal Mohsen, according to the security officials.
Machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades were used in the clashes, which started around 4 a.m., according to the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not allowed to speak to the media.
Three civilians were killed along with a policeman who was on his way to work when he was hit with a bullet in the head, officials said.
The latest deaths raise the number of people killed in violence since last month to 87. More than 200 have been wounded.
A military official said the fighting had eased before noon Sunday and the army was sending reinforcements.
The area witnessed heavy fighting last month when pro-government gunmen and armed men loyal to the Hezbollah-led opposition clashed in different parts of the country.
After a meeting Sunday afternoon by local leaders in Tripoli, former Prime Minister Najib Mikati called on the Lebanese army to take control in the city.
Officials from the opposition Arab Democratic Party did not attend the meeting.
After sunset, security officials said sporadic fighting in the area resumed.
An Arab-mediated deal in May got Lebanon's Western-backed parliament majority and the Hezbollah-led opposition to agree to form a national unity government and halt the spiraling political crisis that had escalated into violence and pushed Lebanon to the brink of a new civil war.
The deal, signed May 21 in Doha, Qatar, calls for forming 30-member Cabinet in which Hezbollah and its opposition allies have veto power over government decisions. Former army chief, Michel Suleiman, was elected by parliament as a consensus president and sworn in four days after the agreement was signed.
But tensions have been increasing in recent weeks because Prime Minister Fuad Saniora has been facing difficulties forming the new Cabinet. On Saturday, Saniora rejected opposition calls to step down.

 

I wonder why the army doesn't step in? If the Army does not take control, it will be every man for himself and local groups will need to start to form militias.

 

Bogart, this is a very sticky situation. You have a lebanese army that is puny compared to hezbolla in power or technology. Lets say they took the pro-governments side. What the heck could the army do or say against hezbolla. What could anyone do against them. They are the true power in lebanon now. The army is just a paper tiger.

Funny thing i heard about going through the lebanese forces forum. It seems like an explosion of some sort has occured in in th eHezbolla stronghold of Jezzine which is in the south. No one knows much more then this because Hezbolla wont let any security forces or news people in there. http://www.lebanese-forces.org/vbullet/showthread.php?t=32524 . Some people in the forum are speculating that the syrian intelligence people were behind it, some say isreal, but no one knows for sure. Something crazy is starting to happen. Could it have to do with the recent syrian-isreali peace talks?
The mystery deepens.

 

The Lebanese Army is stronger than Hezbollah but may collapse or break apart in a fight against them. Hezbollah is very dangerous and can lanch attacks against Lebanese cities with its 30,000 rockets. In addition there are hundreds of Syrian and Iranian Revolutionary Guard advisors.

 

Bogart, just wanted to ask you if you were serious when you said the lebanese army are stronger then hezbolla. Please provide me some facts to help sway me because from everywhere im reading, they are scared out of their wits to against the hezbolla machine as they are the among the best trained militia in the world.

 

According to the Jaffee Center's Middle East Military Balance, there are 64,000 members of Lebanon's armed forces, which has 36 helicopters, four shoulder-launched missiles, 27 naval patrol crafts, 350 tanks mostly old Soviet T-54s and T-55s, 1,380 mechanized infantry vehicles, and 335 artillery pieces.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1150886020405

The problem is the political will. However, it is not to say that Hezbollah is not strong.

HEZBOLLAH:

Strength: 600 to 1,000 fighters, 3,000 to 5,000 available. 10,000 reservists

Equipment: 10,000 to 15,000 rockets, according to the Jane's Defence Weekly magazine. Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said in May that the Shiite militia group had 12,000 rockets.

Rockets include: Katyusha, with a range of 29 kilometres; Fajr-3 (45 kilometres), Fajr-5 (75 kilometres), supplied by Iran

Missiles: Zelzal 1 and 2 -- perhaps around 30 supplied by Iran

http://www.iiss.org/whats-new/iiss-...006/strength-of-israel-lebanon-and-hezbollah/

 

Good info bogart. very good. The only thing i disagree on is the amount of fighters in hezbolla. Its much bigger then most know and its very hard to get intelligence on their numbers, and i also heard that most regular citizens have to spend some time getting military training from hezbolla so they could surprise alot of people with their numbers.

 

I agree with you on the Hezbollah numbers. There is also no way to know how many Iranian revolutionary guards and Quds Force are with Hezbollah. Hezbollah could also be reinforced by the PLO from the refugee camps inside Lebanon. Another danger is that PLA forces from Syria are deployed ro help Hezbollah.

 

maybe the revolutionary guards, quds are with hezbolla but the plo definately arent. They have historically always fought against each other in lebanon. Syria is the wild card. If there are closed dorr meetings with isreal , syria will turn on anyone (hezbolla included) to get the golan back.
If you look at the civil war in lebanon it was syria that saved the lebanese christian forces in 1976 and then turned on general aoun in 1991 when it suited their needs. The syrians always did what was needed to insure their own survival and will betray anyone at anytime as its needed. They are pragmatic survivors in a very tough middle east zone. Even though i never liked hafez assad i must respect the man as the most intelligent arab leader the arab world has known. He outlasted them all.

 

And now compare that with Israeli military and let's talk about last Lebanon war...

 

Israel decided not to slug it out with Hezbollah using light infantry. Israel is more than capable of defeating Hezbollah. However, Hezbollah is more of a nusance than a strategic threat to the Israelis.

 

Once upon a time it took 6 days for Israeli army to defeat several armies and yet same army didn't managed to defeat Hezbollah in more than a month... If I were Israeli those facts would make me worry. No, Israel is not capable of defeating Hezbollah in any way.

 

Very intelligent arguments. Good stuff.

 

I don't believe that the Israelis will give up the Golan. The Golan heights are at the heart of a water dispute with Syria. Israel gets 55% of it's water from sources originating in the Golan. At issue also is the borders of Golan -- the pre-1923 border, the 1923 border, the 1949 armistice line or the 1967 border including 25 sq km of Israeli terrority as well as access to the Sea of Galilee.

Hezbollah can't stand up to the Israeli army. It's not worth the effort to fight them out of thier tunnels when the Israelis have other concerns.

 

First it was "strategic" and now it is about water... Hey! I need oil! Can I invade Kuwait and keep it because I will get almost all my oil from there?
Anyone who supports Israel keeping stolen land actually supports infinity war. Israel don't have borders. Israel have armistice lines and all those countires in that area can fight to change those lines to get more water,land,sand...

Israeli army can't stand Hezbollah and we all saw it.
It's hilarious how you find incredible excuses for side you support. In last Lebanon war Israel got enough time from their US sponsors to deal with Hezbollah and we all saw how it ended. "New reality in ME" my ass.

 

lol. It's such a stupid comment. Hezbollah could be wiped off the map in 10 minutes if Israel wanted to use a nuke.

It's just not worth the time to enter into guerrilla fighting.

 

Speaking about stupid comments...

They tried that once and failed. Don't you know history? Ah yeah! You don't lol
Take some time and read it: Israeli Security Zone and South Lebanon conflict (1982–2000).

 

Youve just taken the words out of my mouth...

 

Iggysick, do you support the hezbollah? because if you are then you support a group of terrorists.

 

If the Israelis play Hezbollah's game of course they're playing losing ball.

The Israeli's withdrew from the Security Zone in respobse to the UN resolution. As part of the deal all militias in Lebanon were supposed to disarm.

Hezbollah hasn't attacked the Israeli frontier again after the Israeli's let loose on Lebanon in 2006. The Israelis have bigger fish to fry and their goal is not consolidate on the Golan, Jordan Valley and Jurelsalem so that they have a viable state.