US is not looking for a solution because US is not in the position to give a solution, they just follow whatever "report" sent to them, and according to it, they launch wars irresponsibly, in 1991 US also appeared as "looking for solution" that led to Madrid conference which was nothing except a try to convince Arabs that US is serious now in putting an end to the conflict, while they were interested in Arabs support for a military action against Iraq, same like now, they are looking for support, for a military action against Iran, or at least more sanctions, and trying to convince Arabs that they are really looking for a solution to end the conflict, and at the same time trying to convince them that Iran is a threat to them, when the real threat is in Israel and its boundaries-less dreams of expansionism.
That is what I mean when I said you don't deal with real world. What Israeli security concern are you talking about? The country has nuclear bombs, I don't think even USA will dare to attack them as North Korea example has shown, let alone some Arab countries. Israel is an apartheid system as south Africa was, the only difference is that one was based on race while the other one is based on religion. Being a militarized government is a necessity for such forms of government to survive and what better excuse than terrorism. Let's look at South Africa, do you really think that south Africa government fall because of Mandela was rotting in a prison cell (Also Mandela refused to denounce arm struggle as long he was a prisoner). The decline of South Africa started when it became too embarrassing for American government to support it in front of American black voters who were growing in economical and political power. In the same type of process, Israel one day will change when USA government will not or can not support them anymore.
Gworld but doesnt there come a time when someone should say " enough is enough". Native americans here have less than 1% of their original land back with them. Are they still resorting to suicide bombings to get their land back? When will they say I Will Fight No More Forever as chief joseph said? Or will they let the whole region end up in a nuclear war that could turn into ww3?
israelis do not have a security in regard to existence of israel but to the life of their people and their psyche . if mandela did not chose a peaceful path, south africa would be able to treat them as before but that change allowed the world opinion to become on mandela's side and the change became unavoidable.
wow. get a hold of yourself. Palestinians can not be the cause of WW3 . don't put that burden on them.
You can say "enough is enough" as much as you want but nobody cares if they have the upper hand. Actually the history of American Indians has shown that. How many times Indians signed treaties with Washington and How many times they got fu*ked over as soon as the government wanted their land? They were forced to total submission and also were assimilated to some extent and that is the reason you don't see Indians raiding party anymore. Israel can do none of the above. That is just an excuse, internal security and fighting terrorism is a police matter but Israel is a militarized country that is fighting for expansion and hegemony over conquered lands. I repeat again and you go check it out in Google. Mandela DID NOT DENOUNCE ARM STRUGGLER WHILE HE WAS IN PRISON. In fact he stayed in prison an extra 5-10 years just because he wouldn't. By the time Mandela was released, south African government was on the end of it's rope and it had nothing to do with Mandela becoming "peaceful".
without him choosing and supporting a peaceful solution they would have used the violence as an excuse and derail the changes. a few months of violence and they would loose the momentum and the support in US also. i think palastanians are at a similar point. They should stop all the armed activity and consider peaceful resistance instead.
It doesn't look like you want to learn something and at least look at what happened in South Africa which is easily available through online search. Therefore, please continue with your story telling and preach your brotherly love among all nations, Mr. Gandhi.
I concur. It was very interesting to see that even here on DP Muslims are not willing to make peace as long as Israel exists This certainly throws out 90% of the posts which pizzaman has made. It clarifies the issues facing the peace process. You don't think so -- but the Muslims in this thread have directly and specifically told you that you are wrong. The Muslims in this thread have told you that they would rather stay at war than accept peace as long as Israel is allowed to exist. Wake up man, it's time to change your position to a more reality-based one. Sorry man. Unfortunately, that is not true. The Muslims do not want peace with Israel. The evidence is manifold: Their holy book forbids them from accepting peace. The Iranians are creating nuclear weapons to prevent peace. The Muslim posters here in this thread have confirmed that they will not accept peace with Israel. It's time that we all accept who we are dealing with here.
actually i have seen the same thing from both side. There is lack of belief that peace is possible. I knew that from the beginning and pointed it out as a problem. In the real world we even see hamas and israel are trying to find an acceptable solution and have a cease fire. the things are going according to my expectation and it looks good. as the the situation on ground improves then they will be more hopeful on both side. Wake up man, it's time to change your position to a more reality-based one.
We are exactly nowhere in this time line. This can continue for 1 year, 10 years or 100 years and nothing will change as long as there is not a fundamental change which is removal of U.S. support for Israel happens. The history of last 60 years make this quite obvious.
no. that is why your idea is different than mine. i think a better approach would be to find a solution that will replace peace as the main vehicle for israeli's security and intrest. This objective would allow a faster resolution 1-3 years. It requires the removal of all violence by the palestanians. a total quiet. This would push both israel and US to a position that an acceptable compromise can be reached. I do not mind peaceful demonstrations and other this like that. We are going in this direction now. we have to support it and allow them to reach peace.
How can you keep apartheid and expand militarily by using peace? This is not about security of Israel or it's existence since you even admitted that there is no chance some country will attack them. You can not make truce when one side has the upper hand, Indians in USA tried it and we all know how they got fu*ked over every time federal government needed more land. I think you are born too late, you should have lived in 60s and gone to woodstock and give out flowers. It is not about what I rather or what you and pizzaman rather, it is about real world with real people who have real interests and motives. Looking at the world with pink glasses, having fantasy view of it and preaching some kind of hippie brotherly love doesn't help anyone. Problems can only be solved by understanding it and solving the cause of it.
Israel has upper hand in war. palestanian are even in peace. if you can not win a game change it. change the game and go for a draw.
As long as Israel has the upper hand in war, they will have no desire for peace (truce) and there will be none. Unfortunately life is not a casino and you can not switch to black jack because you were unlucky on the roulette table, this is the only game in town.
a casino is small town next to the real world. We take much bigger gamble in life. and here also there is no guarantee but a quick risk benefit ratio points to peaceful approach as a better choice.
May be this example make it more clear for you. If you know that by driving fast, you will get a ticket for $50 but if you get to your destination on time (which you wouldn't if you drive slow), you will get $500,000, which one would you chose, drive fast or not?
no i think this is not a good example of the situation.this is how you see it . no wonder you have a hard time. what if it was $500.000 in 150 years .and the fine was $5000