Feminism: How my mother's fanatical views tore us apart

And that's wrong. It's also stupid, as it is a strong disincentive to people of talent and ability. However, the fact you are even working in the field is itself testament to the work of those who preceded you.

And no one has any right to judge your choice. My wife and I both work, and we both raise our son. Lots of couples do lots of mixes in various ways, in making the choices regariding their families.

Respectfully, I would say: that you have that choice is due to the bravery of many women born before you.

I think that in the past Dr. Schlessinger has had some good things to say - chiefly in her attention on personal responsibility. Perhaps like "feminism," as a "movement," (though from what I have seen, it is not a monolithic "thing"), we should draw from the good issues she's raised, and discard her (what I would call ridiculously off-mark) excesses - for instance, blaming women for their spouses' infidelities:

(Much as I couldn't believe what I was hearing, the above was on the Today Show).

History is important. From the right to even vote, to attention on and providing for care in the face of domestic abuse, to many, many other issues that those of us living today likely take for granted, I would argue that without the "movement" - basically, without brave people who preceded us, our country would be a worse place than it is now. "It" goes beyond our borders to the world - say, genital mutilation in Africa, trafficking in prostitution and enslavement, and many more.

To this thread, the right to choose one's existence without a systematic and unjust bar in place to exploit that choice is the heart of my view.

 

North: I love your posts, very well thought out and researched.

But, as a woman, I have to totally AGREE with Dr. Laura's statement you quoted above( although, I might understand exactly what's she trying to say since I listen to her everday, she sounds extreme if you are not around for full explanation on her radio show). Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with EVERYTHING she says or does (I just looked up her bio and she's not always been miss innocent), but her underlying message of family being the most important thing in the world is why I listen....

I have seen SOOOOO many women that want to get married to try and achieve "perfect woman" status that they completely treat their men like shit afterwards. It's like a used paper towel. Once the woman has the marriage status, she doesn't need the man anymore. Throw it away. So she forgets him, ignores him, doesn't give him love and sex anymore. There is STILL so much pressure on women to have it all, that they concentrate so much on "fitting in and being perfect" and forget to actually work on their marriage. And when that happens, the man goes out and cheats because he doesn't feel like his wife loves him. Women of my generation were NEVER taught that a man needs reassurance, love, acceptance, or compliments. And one can only feel unappreciated for so long. Cheating is wrong, but if women just provided the attention men want, they wouldn't even THINK of going elsewhere.

 

Firegirl, firstly, thank you for the kind thought at the lead of your post, above. I haven't seen you in awhile but I've enjoyed your posts as well.

On Dr. Schlessinger's comment, we'll have to disagree. I find the comment worse than unconscionable. In so many words, "if a guy is unfaithful to his wife, it's got to be her fault."

Firstly, it flies in the face of her longtime stated stance on personal responsibility. Is the guy so weak and helpless, he cannot speak to the issue, and cannot control himself? She was speaking, specifically, in response to Eliot Sptizer's chronic trysts with prostitutes. The guy is a pathological lothario, and no "sweet wife" could stop the problem, at least from what I could tell. Much like saying, "you made me mad...so I (fill in the blank). What happened to personal responsibility?

Secondly, forgive me if I do express that this notion - being a stone's throw from blaming a women for assault and rape due to "provocative dress or manner," etc. - well, such a comment makes me cringe. As a guy who regularly teaches assault awareness and prevention to women and women's groups, I have seen a good deal, and find it wildly irresponsible, at the very least.

It's the woman's fault? Really? If a woman has an affair - are we to look to the man's shortcomings, then, by this same logic?

I would say that anyone, men or women, entering into marriage without treating that marriage like a living thing in need of nurturance, is in for serious pain and disappointment.

I'll give an example. I used to work in corporate law (hated it). On balance, the lads outweigh the ladies, in terms of lawyer count. I watched young associates pulling ungodly hours - literally, 5-6 a.m. until well after midnight, many times - in the climb to the much coveted prize of "partner" status. It destroyed their humanity, literally, the process. And I can only conclude, in the few examples where I saw it, it destroyed any hope for a reasonable family life as well. Too many people put work on the altar and the marriage on auto-pilot, and the marriage suffers. But such a tragedy is committed by men and women, at least in my experience.

 

Well, we can at least respectfully agree to disagree. Although, I agree that if a man is too weak to voice his concerns in the marriage, it doesn't give him the right to cheat (in fact, he shouldn't even be married in the first place). Cheating is wrong and I don't think it's ok to do.

I agree with her quote not just because of what she says, but what she is trying to do. Her listeners are mainly female, and I think she uses extreme measures/comments sometimes to make the whiny/weak women that call into her show realize that if their marriage is failing, THEY need to explore how to fix it. Like I said before, my generation was never taught that marriage is WORK. A lot of these women don't even stop to think that they could be contributing to the marital problems. "Why doesn't my husband do romantic things for me? Why doesn't he want to spend time with me? Why doesn't he want to help me around the house?" "Do you ever do any of those things for him?" Let's not concentrate on why he's not doing this or that, but rather let's explore what YOU, as a woman and a wife, can do to bring happiness into the marriage. I understand how Dr. Laura's comment alone can be very extreme, but if you listen to her on a daily basis, you realize that she really DOES NOT believe that the woman is 100% at fault for a cheating husband. She's using shock tactics to make women realize that if they need to stop acting like whiney "victims", and start doing what you can to make your man happy. Most men are NOT the slimy, lazy, whoretastic bastards women make them out to be. Stop thinking the man is completely at fault and take some responsibility. NOTE: this does not apply in situations where there is violence or abuse of any kind!

Basically what I take from Dr. Laura is that she's trying to point out that women need to take some responsiblity for their marriage and choices and stop being whiney brats! That's what I agree with. We rush to get married because society tells us we need to, then don't put any effort into the marriage, and whine when it all goes to shit!

Back to the main topic here...

I agree with this statement because I have seen too many people put marriage and unfortunately their children on auto-pilot for their careers. I think feminism has taught women in the past that it's acceptable to do this. I'm all for women being doctors and lawyers and working 20 hours straight, but if my career is that important, I wouldn't bring children into that situation ( I know you said your wife works, but it sounds like she would be there for your son, even if that meant quitting her job). But that's just me. I'm 29, never been married(getting close though) and have no children. Very rare these days. But, I'd rather have kids when I can stay home with them full time and be able to provide them with a stable family.

 

(Actually, for both of us, our son is top priority - work is important, but we're not rich, and will never be - we prefer time together, and natural things, so our choices have guided his upbringing).

Food for thought, Firegirl - thanks for the dialogue. Nice to see you in this corner again.

Paul

 

We need more firegirls in America.

 

Cosigned. But you'd be surprised. There are a lot more young ladies with similar attitudes about relationships today than there was 10 years ago.

 

People think too much. Divorce attorneys are cleaning up.

People need to nap more and worry about the worlds problems less

 

There is a drug that helps both with causing naps and making one worry about the worlds problems less. Of course, the federal government locks people up for life, with no parole, for growing too much of it, even in their own backyard.

 

Drugs. The way to stop worrying about feminists comin' to git ya!

 

Drugs or alcohol.

I find a nice glass of wine, or two, really helps me. I can't remember the last time I gave a shit what some feminist thought. Got to run, I think I hear my wife calling for me....

 

Women and alcohol don't mix. I don't let them drink

 

I dislike both feminists and malinists when they will come [soon?].

 

From what I have seen smoking pot makes people worry more, in fact they seem to think everyone is out to get them...

 

I think that's coke. Pot smokers don't worry about anything, except where they can satisfy their munchies, it's unbelievably annoying, but definitely not paranoid.

 

Is Hillary Clinton a feminist ?

 

100% Communist.

 

All i can say is FIREGIRL , CAN WE CLONE YOU?

 

Your obsession with capitalism is making you neglect your knowledge on socialism and communism. Hilary has small aspects of socialism and you call her a Communist? Why do Americans always use Communist and Socialist as if they are the same thing?

This isn't a dig at you, i'm just making sure you know that Communism and Socialism aren't the same thing.

 

Obama seems to be a socialist. Clinton is a communist.

To be specific, I believe Clinton is a Trotskyite, who uses Marxism as a means to increase state power, and further the religion of nationalism.