Economic Misery Index - Govt Stats understated?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by wisdomtool, May 14, 2008.

  1. #1
    This is quite an interesting article from CNNMoney, quite true especially when I read that there is no inflation if you do not drive or eat :)

    http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080514/051308_misery.html

    Some excerpts


     
    wisdomtool, May 14, 2008 IP
  2. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #2
    I have tried to point out the difference between headline and core inflation here many times. Some people have actually argued that it makes sense to exclude food and energy.

    As always, I recommend keeping an eye on John Williams "ShadowStats"

    This article is particularly relevant.
    http://www.shadowstats.com/article/56



    :)
     
    guerilla, May 14, 2008 IP
  3. korr

    korr Peon

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    #3
    "Growing number of experts" this line cracks me up. Statistical manipulations are nothing new, they have just been extremely bold for the last few months.

    They say the reason inflation isn't bad is because furniture and hotel prices are down. So, walk to IKEA and buy a bedroom set - just don't have it delivered. And be sure to rent a lot of hotel rooms since they're cheap now, just make sure you walk to them, too.
     
    korr, May 14, 2008 IP
  4. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #4
    For most middle to lower income levels, food and energy expenses are a significant part of the budget. The other day I was at the grocery store and cherries were $8 for a small bag! I love cherries, but they are now officially out of my price range.:) Yet, I don't believe I am necessarily in the the buying hamburger instead of steak scenario, because I am not buying lower quality. Instead, I am buying much less of the pre-processed and pre-packaged type food. One trick I learned is if you stay on the outer edges of the grocery store, you will spend less. If you venture into the middle of the store, that's where most of the pre-packaged food is. I agree though, they need to figure in food and energy expenses to judge how the economy is doing.
     
    Rebecca, May 14, 2008 IP
    wisdomtool likes this.
  5. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #5
    The last time inflation was going through the roof was in the late 1970's early 1980's.

    It would be appropriate to at least go back to methods of measurement that were used at that time. It would paint a picture that is far more clear in terms of comparison.

    Increases in costs of food and fuel are dramatic at this point in time. I would clearly like to see costs measured in the exact same way as measured at that period so as to describe conditions in a similar fashion. Anything else is subject to rhetorical and political hocus pocus.
     
    earlpearl, May 14, 2008 IP
  6. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #6
    From the article I linked earlier (and ideas I believe you have referenced in the past).

    http://www.shadowstats.com/article/56

    Excerpts


     
    guerilla, May 14, 2008 IP
  7. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #7
    I guess the main issue is instead of using the CPI to try measuring inflation, it was used as for political means to modify the data, substitution is meant to create a basket that is more inline with consumers demands and not to get the data inline with what the govt wants. Its a pity, lots of work are involve in collecting the data, analyzing and producing such an index which turns out worthless what it is suppose to do.
     
    wisdomtool, May 14, 2008 IP
  8. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #8
    In reading through Williams' thesis I'm surprised that neither AARP or unions raised their voices during the early 1990's when, according to Williams the methodology for calculating cpi was changed.

    During the earlier part of the 1980's CPI escalations were often a significant element of projected increases in commercial real estate leases around the nation, and similarly a significant element in calculating investment and cash flow values on properties. Tenants could see fairly representative estimates and present value estimates of long term lease costs and investors could see see similarly fairly representative expectations for cash flow on both actual and present value bases.

    There were a wide variety of cpi estimate models available for many industries. I would think that both AARP, which is and has been one of the most powerful lobbying groups in DC and the Unions would have been fully capable of analysing the impacts of these changes and would have or should have raised a stink.

    I'm not that sophisticated but used the existing models on a regular basis during the 1980's and could ultimately see how changes were or could impact escalations over time.

    I just don't see how AARP, labor unions or other groups dramatically impacted by contracts or agreements based on CPI changes could have let a system change that dramatically understated cpi rate changes from the manor in which it was calculated in the 1980's.
     
    earlpearl, May 14, 2008 IP
  9. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #9
    It is a pity CPI is the basis for many of the indicators, manipulating that would rendered the rest of the indicators inaccurate.

     
    wisdomtool, May 14, 2008 IP
  10. Bernard

    Bernard Well-Known Member

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    #10
    I don't need a government or news outlet to tell me when my purchasing power is declining. It's obvious.
     
    Bernard, May 15, 2008 IP
  11. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #11
    The state of the economy as a whole can look dramatically different contingent on your economic status.

    If I'm low income and struggling w/ money price increases in gas, home fuel and electricity and food costs are devastating.

    If I have a lot of liquidity and I can buy a new house at 75% of what I would have paid last year for a house...I'm doing great. If I mortgage it out and get low rates at a lower price...my occupancy costs just dropped like a rock! and I'm a happy camper.

    If I can buy 5 or 6 rental homes at 60-70% of what they would have cost a year or two ago and get them well rented with good cash flow....Bingo....I'm doing great.

    Inflation, cpi increases, and which costs are changing in which directions have different meanings to different folks dependant on financial status.

    For comparison's sake they should at least take cpi methodology back to the method of the 1980's. It would measure elements of inflation in ways similar to the last period of serious inflation. Actual application and usage of these measures were frankly not well developed until probably the 60's or 70's. so the 1980's methodology reflects a meaningful period of comparison.

    Since CPI represents an astonishing large bucket of price indicators it would be further helpful to break it down into components that reflect impact on folks within the economy or elements of the economy wherein the measures are helpful.

    For instance a focus on costs that are basic and necessary and hit those with less income is far more meaningful to far more people than a focus on costs that are used less. In other words cost increases in food have more meaning to more people than cost increases in hotel occupancy.

    Measures of this nature would add a lot of depth and meaning to the analyses of costs.
     
    earlpearl, May 15, 2008 IP
  12. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #12
    Except that they are not effected. Social security isn't indexed to inflation it's indexed to wages which over time tend to rise faster then inflation.
     
    soniqhost.com, May 16, 2008 IP
  13. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #13
    Wages rise faster than (price) inflation? :rolleyes:

    Sounds like it's inevitable that every business will go bankrupt when their employees eventually make more than the price of goods sold...
     
    guerilla, May 16, 2008 IP
  14. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #14
    If so...that answers my question. merci! :D
     
    earlpearl, May 16, 2008 IP
  15. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #15
    IMHO Govt data needs to be accurate, not to be manipulated for their conveniences. Accurate data allows for the correct actions and remedies to problems in the economy. If it is so slewed to one end, you may find that the stimulus policies etc may be counter productive. Money will be going down the drain. Tax payers' money.
     
    wisdomtool, May 16, 2008 IP
  16. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #16
    Which would be true if productivity wasn't factored in also.
     
    soniqhost.com, May 16, 2008 IP
  17. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #17
    The best way to do that, is to open source the data and the methodologies.

    Mark Sanford and the South Carolina government recently pursued an initiative to open source government expenses.

    This is the future of transparent and accountable government. Real time reporting and disclosure of this data, will allow independent citizen auditors to compile data and expose areas of government waste and abuse.

    WT, there is no reason you or I should not be able to access the data compiled, audit it, and then apply the methodology to create our own statistics, and in this regard, "double check" government.

    Except that the data, the methodology and the adjustments are all government monopoly, one which is never audited externally.
     
    guerilla, May 16, 2008 IP
  18. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #18
    And how does productivity factor in? Let's break this down.
     
    guerilla, May 16, 2008 IP
  19. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #19
    This will be a great step forward from a few perspectives

    1. It allows the various indicators to be calculated using different methodologies.

    2. It allows other indicators to be created as and when needed as determined by market requirements.

    3. It allows checks and counter checks on the govt data. Statistics especially can be manipulated to say what the policy makers want to say. They would be more reluctant to say something that can be refuted almost immediately by those with the source data.

    4. Economy anomaly due to market misinformation can be cut to a minimum.

    I do not see any harm in releasing the data only benefits. Which makes me wonder, why do all govt keep such data as if it is top secret.

     
    wisdomtool, May 16, 2008 IP
  20. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #20
    Because it allows employees to produce more goods while working the same number of hours, which allows companies to see more goods while they labor cost stay the same, so the labor cost per unit actually falls making the goods cheaper to produce.
     
    soniqhost.com, May 16, 2008 IP