Sem-Advence - I know that's the CW and as an affiliate I've always mentioned the money back guarantee - that's why I find it so interesting that FatLoss4Idiots doesn't mention it as they obviously have put a lot of time into testing what works for them (I believe they currently have the highest gravity of any product on CB) and I'm wondering if they decided to cut back on refunds by not mentioning that their product can be refunded in the sales letter? It seems like that's what they are doing. Perhaps they found the increase in conversions (by mentioning the refund) was not enough to offset refunds caused by it? And I must add - the product is amazingly bad. I realize that there are so many incredibly stupid people in this world that many customers will not even realize how crap the product is - but... I can imagine a lot of people start reading it like I did and go "WTF?! you have to be kidding me!?" - I mean it's barely even in ENGLISH. It looks like something they paid a freelancer in Asia to write for them.
Most of the products I have bought at Walmart, K Mart, Target when I dare venture to such places have been crap. I know I am not the only one who feels this way yet millions venture to these stores daily and buy their inferior products....most will never return the things they buy. That explains the whole principal behind Fatloss4Idiots....shit sells and people don't care if they lose money. As for whether they offer a money back guarantee ......most business owners have no understanding of marketing and as such I doubt they know the CW behind making that offer.... I would venture to guess if the owner of fatloss did.... his conversions would increase sad as that is......
I find that hard to believe because it's clear to me that the people behind FatLoss4Idiots are internet marketers first and "business owners" second. In other words I'm sure they had the idea for the marketing before they had the product created. It's also clear that they've done a lot of conversion testing and a lot of thought has gone into their sales pages. (Much much much more thought than was put into their actual product!) But looking at another such high selling low quality product in this niche: http://www.topsecretfatlosssecret.com/ - they do make a big deal about their guarantee. Like most CB products do. I've always thought the guarantee was a great selling point... so that's why I find it so interesting that Fat Loss 4 Idiots doesn't advertise the guarantee especially when they seem to test their conversions so much.
I dont see how you can establish that. To be honest I have never heard of the product till now. From my experience, most people own businesses, and then try to figure out how to advertise their business. This explains why 95% of the businesses I run Adwords campaigns have yet to install conversion tracking, till they hire me. Further that most of the business people I have dealt with are typically losing with Adwords... this would seem to further suggest they are business people with no marketing experience whatsoever. Heck Microsoft still puts out inferior products and then tries to make them better after release to the public.....this does not mean they are marketers does it? or are they another business trying to make their product better???
They do have conversion tracking - they allow all affiliates to put in Google & Yahoo tracking. ... I think if you knew more about them you would understand what I'm talking about. These guys know what they are doing. Their gravity is over 500 on CB. They are making a HUGE amount of money.
Zibblu FatLoss4Idiots is alright. At least their website looks quite nice, and professional. However what surprises me that water4gas is on the top with their "crappy" website....The product itself might be good, but I don't understand how their website convinces visitors to buy. Probably they have the highest gravity in history of Clickbank.
Man I so agree with you! Also it's almost 100$ ! ! ! And I am sure the guy makes THOUSANDS a day - he could hire a webdesigner and a good copywriter... But I guess he does by the rule: "Don't fix it if it's not broken" .... lol For some reason X it just converts... what's his gravity? Over 500?
Zib If I did not know better I would swear you are a fan and perhaps overtly promoting the product. As for gravity that can easily be accomplished by affiliates with large lists who convince their easily pick-pocketed readers to buy the product. Nothing new here. That statistic (as do most) does little for me, in and of itself it means little as to how well I would be able to sell the product via PPC for example. It is also common knowledge to promote CB products with less gravity since the ones with the highest gravity are diluted and likely marketed by the masses.
Does anyone have any clue to how much a good publisher is making from Clcikbank? Like the Water/Gas guy...how much money are we talking? Anyone know of any good articles or websites that say how much the top Clickbank publishers are making? Just need some motivational reading!
I agree with water4gas looking tacky, plus the satillite tv product too. FatLoss4idiots has a good negative campaign. on "WHY YOU ARE OVERWEIGHT", and not much on how to lose weight. It's clean and its a good preseller. But It seems like the weight loss campaigns are huge, but people only tend to choose the top 4 campaigns with high gravity which keep them going strong. Without a doubt mp3/movie downloads and weight loss are the biggest markets on clickbank. Vene
Interesting discussion: Vene: There are a whole slate of affiliates that have indeed tried to become vendors and failed miserably. Why? They come ill prepared. There is a BIG difference though both roles rely on the same one element=marketing. To break it down, here is my view of the perks and consequences of both worlds: AFF: YOU are a lot more automated NO customer support MINIMAL campaign dev. you take what the vendor gives you (most of the time). NO research (though you truly truly should do just as much if not more than the vendor. COMMITMENT - if you don't like the product or the campaign is dying- you just switch and lose nothing. SPEND - Prime publishers spend a LOT of both money and time to get their product launched - you just pick up where they left off and start to monetize their offer. *CON-No say in price points, changes, no control, risk of promoting while they are down, risk of getting your campaigns slapped - falling quickly from SE's or other aff's coming along and swiping you. Publisher: Potential to make a lot more Potential to utilize affiliates from other projects You are in charge of the whole operation - including its failure You must take all the customer support You must take all the affiliate support <<Just as important if not MORE than above You must deal with maintenance and site updates/product updates/etc. You are in charge of recruitment You don't have to worry about hoplink issues or getting cookies stolen/replaced/spied on. I think it's natural to grow from an affiliate to a vendor - however don't let the fact that you are a good aff'er dictate that you 'must' be good at the vendor role as well. There is so much more work involved and the return is NOT always there. If I stuck to the first 2 products I ever did - I would have failed. Why? It's no different for US to test a campaign than it is for aff's. We research the markets, and we launch products/projects that we think are both in demand and will start to soar in the marketplace and sell 1000's of copies... the truth is - most vendors launch 10 products and only 2 will succeed as expected, the others are considered practice or defective research results. Doing both is good however spreads you quite thin. Your tasks throughout the day are different in both worlds, as are your end goals. It is actually quite difficult to distinguish the 'better' role as each person fits in one of the other better. If you are creative, detailed, plan really well ahead, and understand the importance of that 'launch day' and how to go about it - you very well CAN be a great vendor. If you try and fail - you will either stop, turn around and go "Ok - that didn't work, I'm going to continue aff'ing" or "Darn, that sucked, now I have to start again and launch another one". Determination, practice, the willingness to fail and learn from your mistakes, and to launch enough products until you really get a good grasp of how it's done with success will be the only way you become a successful vendor. Many of the CB products are indeed one hit wonders, others have indeed been heavily planned out - and others just climbed the charts without anyone really knowing why or how - and I think FL4I and W4G are two that fit that category well - those products actually get A LOT of hate from the aff world - and any retail promoter or commercial affiliate will say the same... But they are usually choppin' rugs for 12% on small indy networks or programs so don't let them bug you.... Affiliates are needed, really good ones are praised heavily and attain 'superaffiliate' status. I think the best way to transition from a SA to a vendor would be to partner up with one and experience the whole process from idea to buildout to recruitment to launch. I had to learn the hard way however I'm lucky that I have an abundance of resources and talent so my failures don't cost me much, and my successes are pure profit - not everyone is this blessed but if you have time, resources and are willing to fail - you deserve to at least give it a try. If anything - you might attract some SA's and be able to track them a bit - which in turn will make YOU a much better marketer by watching your team work your program. ** I have recently written a great piece on launching your own digital product in my blog - http://www.norbsmoney.com - don't mind today's rant - I had a rough episode over at ABW and needed to share... Best, Norb.
Their website is fantastic. Great marketing. I actually am using them as a template I think their marketing is so good. But I'm talking about the actual product, I bought it to learn more about what they do - and it's laughably bad. They put all of their energy into the marketing, hardly any into the product itself. ... which is probably true of almost all CB products...
I was waiting for your response norb, your experienced-advice is excellent. One thing I noticed in your response is you said failure rate is very high, almost 80%, but any advice on how you might lower that number. Could you share with us some huge mistakes you made early on as merchant, so we may avoid them. As I write this I'm finishing up my product, my main concern is the market, and the copywriting. And according to this thread, looks doesn't really matter. And as you said, the best way to find out which one is good is to try both. Thanks again for the all the information. Vene
Cheers Vene, thank you for your comments. Hmmm huge mistakes early on as a merchant... wow - good question! I'm not really sure where to start - First mistake I made was not thinking broad enough as a media producer. A few years back the stuff I charge 10K for was being massively outsourced for under 1K. It still happens today however two things have happened 1. The bigger brands have too much trouble with many variables of campaigns so they come back to local resources 2. The outsourcing is outsourcing the outsourcing - almost nobody wants to touch it anymore... So I had to think outside the box and start to offer services that simply cannot be outsourced and or are way too sensitive to outsource... In this arena, there really is no perfect proven path - even as an 11 year veteran I am still not 'bang on' every time, but I'm getting better. Random mistakes that I can think of where I feel it hurt my projects, or things I've seen my clients do where I know it hurt theirs (and that's why they came to me): * Not nearly enough research. * Relying on product/project dev. too much and not enough on marketing/recruiting. * Not taking their 'launch day' nearly as seriously as they should - Networks usually say 'it can take up to x months to get a good aff program going' - while this is true - it can also launch with a bang on day one if you plan right. * Product defects - This one is tough - When someone invests lot's of time and money into a product or service that is 'clearly' not needed or in demand or now outdated - it is 'hard' to let the investment go and start over - so they keep dumping money into it in an attempt to bring it through one or two more treatments and monetization cycles before they kill it - it usually just eats up their spend and lose even more money, however the odd time a re-brand will work really well as well (think of when MAC made their big comeback debut - they rocked - and still do ). * Competition and timing - Sometimes just when you think you've cornered your market - the competitor launches 2-3 smaller brands to compete with yours, and to leave their foundational brand untouched. <<Not a mistake, just bad timing/not enough competitive intel - not enough diversion in deliverables... * Market response - Sometimes a quick fad can make marketers crazy - actually it does every time - as they all want to capitalize on the cool new trend - then once you are done your market testing and deploy your campaign - you're old news and the next cool thing is out - << also not a mistake you just took a bit too long to respond to the markets with your offer. * I think for tier-1's, they have a much different battle than AM'ers, although they also utilize AM'ing on various levels - They look after very sensitive style guides and moods - when you look at Tim Horten's, they have probably done the best branding when it comes to mass appeal - and under that brand - they can launch as many new products and promos as they want - as long as that tagline hits you 'always got time for tim h...', you respond. Their mistakes are so minute, yet have such a big impact on their fiscal earnings that even the slightest word change in a campaign or the riskiest new product can equate to huge quarterly gains or losses. When a brand is developed - it's a different ballgame. *Vene for you, I would suggest don't launch yet - do your own research and convert your offer on your own first and split test it with at least 3 sales pages, then down to 2, then 1. THEN start thinking about a month in advance for the launch and do a prelaunch, recruitment, and day ONE must be considered your d-day - Whatever you do - if you want to succeed - DO NOT just pop onto the boards one day and go 'hey guys - here is my new product', when you do - make sure you already have at least 20 aff's ready to rock via your personal or opt-in recruitment. All my best, I look forward to seeing what you are cooking Norb.
"Vene for you, I would suggest don't launch yet - do your own research and convert your offer on your own first and split test it with at least 3 sales pages, then down to 2, then 1. THEN start thinking about a month in advance for the launch and do a prelaunch, recruitment, and day ONE must be considered your d-day - Whatever you do - if you want to succeed - DO NOT just pop onto the boards one day and go 'hey guys - here is my new product', when you do - make sure you already have at least 20 aff's ready to rock via your personal or opt-in recruitment." Thats really solid advice. I'm sure you saved me from atleast 3 huge mistakes in the future and I plan to take your advice seriously. My product is in review now to get approved, and I should have done this in the first place but I'm working on 2 more sales pages now. Ill test and test some more, and plan my "Grand Opening"; which I will probably give out some nice prizes. I'm sure everything won't run smoothly, but i'll plan everything out, even the potential obstacles. Thanks again, Vene P.S. Buy FatRichPig
this might be a silly question, but how do you test your own product without launching it? If I take it out of test mode won't others be able to promote it? Do I just use the "Pay Link" of my competitors to test my sales pages? Vene
veneficuz - if you're using ClickBank, you can't really "delay" a launch after you got approved, but you can tell potential affiliates that the product is currently being tested for conversions. If they decide to promote it as well during pre-launch, there's nothing you can do. Furthermore, this increased traffic makes testing easier and quicker for you. nadavs
A few things to look for to reduce you failure rate as a vendor 1 - look at CB competition if there are any product similar to yours, make yours better. Give your affiliates more commission. Give your affiliates more aff tools. make your sales page better and make sure it converts better. 2 - look at overall product competition (all PPC listings) try to market your product from a unique angle 3 - Is your market hungry visit forums, blogs etc. look for people wanting what your product can offer. 4 - get opt ins to check your market. before you start making the product/sales page. You should make a simple landing page that collects emails. start a PPC campaign and check how many optins you get. This is a good way to if anybody is willing to make an effort to get your product. IF you get very few optins you may want to look at making a different product. But atleast you would have saved time and money. there are a few more things i look at before creating a product. I would give each of these a score. Which ever of my product ideas gets the highest score is the one i would create next. This is what I did when I first started making products, now I just go with the feelings. out of about 10 products i have created, I found success with 7 of them. Which isn't too bad!
Thanks Swerd for the advice. I'm still waiting to get approved, but I was wondering about NCMedia said about testing your product. How do I go about testing my product with it still being in test mode?