Einstein letter: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by browntwn, May 13, 2008.

  1. #1
    Albert Einstein described belief in God as "childish superstition" and said Jews were not the chosen people, in a letter to be sold in London this week, an auctioneer said Tuesday.

    The father of relativity, whose previously known views on religion have been more ambivalent and fuelled much discussion, made the comments in response to a philosopher in 1954.

    As a Jew himself, Einstein said he had a great affinity with Jewish people but said they "have no different quality for me than all other people".

    "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

    "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this," he wrote in the letter written on January 3, 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind, cited by The Guardian newspaper.

    The German-language letter is being sold Thursday by Bloomsbury Auctions in Mayfair after being in a private collection for more than 50 years, said the auction house's managing director Rupert Powell.

    In it, the renowned scientist, who declined an invitation to become Israel's second president, rejected the idea that the Jews are God's chosen people.

    "For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions," he said.

    "And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people."

    And he added: "As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."

    Previously the great scientist's comments on religion -- such as "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" -- have been the subject of much debate, used notably to back up arguments in favour of faith.

    Powell said the letter being sold this week gave a clear reflection of Einstein's real thoughts on the subject. "He's fairly unequivocal as to what he's saying. There's no beating about the bush," he told AFP. source

    ___________

    This is pretty much what I always thought his view was. It will be interesting to see how people will try to spin this to support their own positions.
     
    browntwn, May 13, 2008 IP
  2. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    615
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #2
    I think this is the first time, I have read an actually interesting post by you. :D

    I would be pretty disappointed in Einstein and would doubt his intelligent if he believed in almighty God.
     
    gworld, May 13, 2008 IP
  3. sweetsara

    sweetsara Peon

    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    5
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #3
    I guess this makes him anti semetic then, how dare he say Jews are not chosen and special people
     
    sweetsara, May 13, 2008 IP
  4. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,742
    Likes Received:
    47
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    #4
    because he didn't think there was anybody to choose anybody
     
    cientificoloco, May 13, 2008 IP
  5. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    8,347
    Likes Received:
    848
    Best Answers:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    435
    #5
    God thinks Jews are his Chosen people.
    Einstein does not believe in God.
    Therefore, Einstein does not believe Jews are Chosen people.

    I am not sure what is antisemitic about his obvious conclusion. Anything else would be illogical.
     
    browntwn, May 13, 2008 IP
  6. sweetsara

    sweetsara Peon

    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    5
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #6
    Do you believe in God?
     
    sweetsara, May 13, 2008 IP
  7. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

    Messages:
    6,426
    Likes Received:
    130
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    230
    #7
    "And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people."

    What part of that is anti-semitic? If anything it presses for absolute, unquestionable equality. It's there in plain English what Einstein said and it's obvious to anyone with even a shred of integrity and self respect what he meant.

    sweetsara, if you have nothing constructive of substantial to add would you mind not saying anything? I for one am tired of your deliberate attempts to render every thread worthless by reducing it to semantics, intentional misinterpretations and infantile word games.
     
    stOx, May 13, 2008 IP
  8. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    615
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #8
    In neo-con minds anybody who denies that Jews are God chosen people with special qualities and rights and therefore have the title to piece of Land in the middle east are considered anti-semitics. Therefore, according to neo-con definitions, Einstein must be anti-semitic. I agree with you that neo-cons are full of it and he wasn't anti-semitic.
     
    gworld, May 13, 2008 IP
  9. sweetsara

    sweetsara Peon

    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    5
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #9
    I was being sarcastic, and you are one to talk about being constructive, mr hypocrite.
     
    sweetsara, May 13, 2008 IP
  10. Divisive Cottonwood

    Divisive Cottonwood Peon

    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    35
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #10
    If you read the letter in full it's the classic of account of how Jews assimilated into modernity so well - hey, I'm proud to be a Jew, but as for this God business...

    I would be most disappointed if Einstein believed in God.
     
    Divisive Cottonwood, May 13, 2008 IP
  11. swaymedia

    swaymedia Active Member

    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    60
    #11
    I believe in god, but I dont believe Jews are the chosen people...
     
    swaymedia, May 13, 2008 IP
  12. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    8,347
    Likes Received:
    848
    Best Answers:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    435
    #12
    Yes, and you are also antisemitic. But what does either have to do with Einstein?

    Your ability to understand logic is severely lacking. Believing in God is a prerequisite for believing that Jews are God's Chosen people. So a lack of belief in God by Einstein necessarily means the prerequisite is not met.

    If you don't want to keep sounding so ignorant and foolish, you can try to read more about logic here
     
    browntwn, May 13, 2008 IP
  13. swaymedia

    swaymedia Active Member

    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    60
    #13
    Lol are you telling me that, becuase I believe in God, and I dont believe that the Jews are God's Chosen people. Im anti-semetic.

    I really need too twitter this Joke.

    "Hey, Guys im an Anti-Semite becuase I dont believe Jews are the Chosen People, ... but I believen in God"

    hahaha... what a joke
     
    swaymedia, May 13, 2008 IP
  14. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    8,347
    Likes Received:
    848
    Best Answers:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    435
    #14
    No, you missed the point. I called you antisemitic because you are, it has nothing to do with your post in this thread. The post in this thread was merely ignorant, not antisemitic. It was ignorant because you are ignoring simple logic which I have explained very clearly on this thread. I will leave it to someone else to try and make sure you understand it.
     
    browntwn, May 13, 2008 IP
  15. swaymedia

    swaymedia Active Member

    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    60
    #15
    Your an anti-semetic, you hate black people, arabs, white arabs and other muslims. Thats becuase you are an anti-semetic regardless of your post.

    do you see ... you dont have any logic. you dont add nothing to a topic.

    you try to manipulate a topic becuase you are a racist against semetic palestinians, your a racist and your a revolting human, people need to hear that also.
     
    swaymedia, May 13, 2008 IP
  16. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    8,347
    Likes Received:
    848
    Best Answers:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    435
    #16
    You can say that all you like, but the truth is that I like Muslims and Blacks and Chinese and Hispanics. I don't have any issues with people based on their race or religion. I judge people based on their words and deeds. I know it is hard for you to comprehend because of your own bias, but others can actually rise above racial and religious prejudice.
     
    browntwn, May 13, 2008 IP
  17. swaymedia

    swaymedia Active Member

    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    20
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    60
    #17
    Jews are a religoun, Zionism is a Political movement of invading Palestine.

    That has nothing to do with race, YOU ARE SICK AND POVERTED ENOUGH TO MANIPULATE TRUTH TO BRING RACE INTO THIS.
     
    swaymedia, May 13, 2008 IP
  18. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    8,347
    Likes Received:
    848
    Best Answers:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    435
    #18
    You said I hate black people and white Arabs, and then when I respond to your accusation, you accuse me of bringing race into the discussion.

    Do you actually believe what you are typing? It is like a comedy of the absurd.
     
    browntwn, May 13, 2008 IP
  19. Ckrismoney

    Ckrismoney Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    70
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    #19
    Albert Einstein's belief has changed now!
     
    Ckrismoney, May 13, 2008 IP
  20. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

    Messages:
    15,826
    Likes Received:
    1,367
    Best Answers:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    455
    #20
    I would say that Einstein is an Authority in physics. But he is not an authority when it comes to religion, what he wrote would be his own personal belief which I respect but which I beg to differ.

     
    wisdomtool, May 13, 2008 IP