After the disastrous take over by Hezbollah of the western area of Beirut, including the flaming of the terrestrial and satellite TV station Future TV, satellite TV news channel Future News, the daily Al-Mustakbal and Radio Orient owned by Saad Hariri the Saudi Arabia backed Sunni leader Its very unlikely that Hezbollah who operate as a state within a state in Lebanon, moved to annexe West Beirut without being given the 'go ahead' by Iran Lebanon has for over 60 years being a barometer for political swings in the region This latest escalation appears to be another Iran instigated problem that is being dished up for Bush to deal with as USA is a backer of the Lebanese government http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/09/AR2008050902628.html?hpid=topnews What are Iran's objectives in this current crisis? Comments :-
Iran has no objective, Iran and Hezbollah are not one etnity like you make them out to be. Hezbollah just wants to eliminate the western puppets in Lebanon and so do most of the citizens (Hence why Hezbollah is supported by the majority) Though i do hope this ends very quickly because i do not like to see the destruction of such a beautiful country!
To show USA that they are betting on a losing hand. If USA foreign policy was not dictated by Tel Aviv, USA could have dropped Israel and start working with Iranian which already established themselves as regional power. They could have helped USA with Iraq, Afghanistan and even radical Muslims while providing Oil and ports in Persian Gulf but unfortunately American politicians are more concerned with what is good for Israel than what is good for USA.
Hezbolla is funded and armed by Iran and the weapons are funnelled through syria. Hezbolla recieves its orders frist from iran. Hezbolla cannot even sneeze without the approval of iran. If iran cuts off its huge funding then hezbolla will be a sitting target and eventually be forced to give up its weapons and stop using its excuse that its defending lebanon against isreal which doesnt even need lebanon for anything. Here we go again with the western puppets in the lebanese government thing. Saniora just wants peace in lebanon and hes trying his best to do it with limited resources and the syrian intelligence breathing down his neck. Remember the good ole syrian intelligence Remember those syrian intelligence and all of teh assasinations of pro government politicians to try to reduce their parliamentary seat power and remember that not one pro aoun or pro hezbolla politician was assasinated during this time. Oh yes, LETS BLAME THAT ALSO ON ISREAL, Yes it was isreal that is killing all of the pro government politicians and helping hezbolla gain power in lebanon. Sorry folks i gotta laughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. This is pure hezbolla and syria working together here with teh approval and funding of iran.
@pingpong you said there are 30 million lebnonies that are in other countries? why don't govt tax them $100 a year so they have the 3 billion that tax can substitute what the iranian give hezbolah plus a whole lot more so they can provide for the people. if they want to have a voice in lebenon they should have no objection to this.
that is a great idea Pizzaman. I sure wish the lebanese government thought as you do. First of all we are talking about lebanese people. I dont know if they yet fully understand how to be unified like isrealis always been. The lebanese mentality is pretty arrogant and self centered culturally but who knows, maybe they have learned how to stick together after all of this drama. This is the first problem, The second problem is that syria and iran would instantly give the command to hezbolla to cause chaos in lebanon as those 2 are the countries that built up hezbolla and lebanon would be thrown into instant civil war anyways. But your idea shows great merit, I just wish the lebanese people could stick together to apply it as i know the lebanese mentality well. Why do you think they called me "the american" or " the foreigner"the last time i visited lol.
if the govt can provide for the shia in the south then they would not need hizbolah or iran or syria. when their need is not met , iran and hizbolah can take advantage of these situation. the govt can require the money if they want to renew their passport and they would not be able to vote unless they have paid this tax. other than that i do not see how anyone can expect these people to go back to be poor or beggers as you said. i would not reject the money that i need to support my family either. would you? the problem is that iranians seem to be the only one willing to help although the real cost might be too much, but you can not think like that when you have no food or medicine or other necessities of life. $100 is not that much money if you care for your country. and if they are not willing to give that little amount of money then they have no right to judge the hizbolah either. don't you think so?
Hezbollah's wishes to form a radical Islamic state in Lebanon and Israel. Thier funding in support is from Iran and Syria. The real puppets are Hezbollah. And any moment they will bring destruction onto the Lebanonese people for the benefit of thier Iranian masters.
Don't believe everything pingpong tells you. Saniora was a partner/ employee of hariri and half of the corruption incorporated. These guys are billionaires, in a country that most people hardly have enough to survive. If they want to match Iran money, they can even do it from their own pocket but they are there to make money and not give it to people.
I fully agree with this, Hizballah main support is not from Iran, or Syria, no matter how much these two would give Hizballah in arms and money, it won't do anything if Hizballah do not have the people support, Hizballah is supported by the people of the South, because they care, they built hospitals, schools, enhanced and maintained infra structure, give the poor, and they rebuilt houses destroyed in 2006 Israeli aggression, people love them there, and on that they depend, the Government though have a point, but before they demand Hizballah to disarm, they need to build a strong army that can defend the country, and to give good services, education, and medical care to the people of the South. Hariri the father maintained good relations with Hizballah until he died, and I think he was against disarming Hizballah, from collecting orange in farms for money, to a big billionaire, he lived the people suffer, and worked for them, and wanted to enhance as much as he can, he became prime minister with people's love, unlike his son who inherited his father fortune, and want too to inherit his father political position, I do not think it will be that easy for him specially with being unknown for the people before his father death.
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=55061§ionid=351020203 Lebanese army reverse anti-Hezbollah descisions
Actually he wanted a lebanon under the taef aggreement 100%. The taef states that all non government militia have to turn in their weapons , yet hezbolla is in direct violation to this agreement and they keep using the isreal excuse . He maintained good relations with hezbolla for teh sake of the lebanese people and at a time when everyone thought hezbolla was for the lebanese people. Hariris son believes exactly as his father does and is following his dads legacy and dream of a peaceful and united lebanon, a lebanon that hezbolla no longer wants anymore. Hezbolla represent 40% of lebanon and that percentage will go down as the shiites who are true lebanese start to realize that it has morphed into a political tool for iran and syria. Please folks just answer one question for me, why did not one pro syrian and pro hezbolla politician get assassinated during the last 2 years? I dont think any pro hezbolla person will dare answer it. Sweetsara do u think the lebanese army is retarded? What could they do against a force as powerful as hezbolla that stood up against isreal. This is why they reversed their anti hezbolla decision. All i gotta say is that hezbolla humiliated the sunni lebanese and they better be careful . The grand sunni mufti in lebanon recently spoke out against hezbolla a few days ago and said if they keep acting like this to be prepared for the mujahadeen. Translation: get your act together or prepare to meet osama bin ladens al quiada. Gworld i want u to show me proof. just because i am against out war in iraq doesnt mean i think hezbolla are the saviors of lebanon. Without funding hezbolla would be roaming the streets just like the other factions in lebanon looking for work. Gworld , what the heck do you know about lebanon anyways? Sounds to me like ur lebanese. Please educated me, im very open minded. Saniora was under hariris pockets then the pro government wouldnt have had the support of the lebanese majority. Aoun represents a small part of the christian lebanese community and there is only hezbolla at 40%. Its just hezbolla represents the people with all the weapons in lebanon. Pizzaman, hezbollas common folk never thought hezbolla would lie and go against their word. hezbolla's leader nasrallah said hezbolla weapons would never be used against his fellow lebanese. He should have said against his fellow iranians. The shiite common folk in lebanon are actually pretty nice people. I remember on our trip to baaback to see the ancient roman ruins we stopped by a hezbolla barber shop and the he gave us a free haircut. Nicest guy i ever met in lebanon, but like most leaders these days , hezbolla has become a puppet and their weapons came with a price. Iran and syria now dictates what hezbollas next move is. They have lost their freedom to make their own decisions and they are slowly making many enemies in lebanon. If iran pulls funding and syria cuts off the roadway through which this funding reaches them, they are finished . Pizzaman, i agree with you 100 isnt alot of money, but do you think syria would allow this? NO WAY. How else could they have a bargaining chip with the isrealis when they try to get teh golan heights back. Like i said this is a very complicated situation. Bogart this wasnt the original reason for hezbolla top be formed but they have morphed towards this purpose because they sold their soul to iran and syria. Hezbolla was actually on eof the most liberal parties during the civil war.
pingpong- you do not want to face the facts. these people either have to be like this or they will have nothing. i bet you they have been always the lower class? as long back as you want to go. if your fancy exiles don't want to pay the tax. they should lose their right to vote. divide the available money fairly. but no all you want is that they should go back to being second class citizens. when the country was doing better a few years back how many hospitals did the govt made in the south? how many in the richer area? how about schools? it seems that only one side should sacrifice? let the govt start to provide services first then ask them to go the rest of the way. other than that trying to disarm them is probably not going to work and might turn ugly. as far as who killed the politicians. as i said that as of now according to UN a criminal group is thought to be responsible,
proof of what? What does Iraq war got to do with Lebanon? Without corruption and American support, your prime minister will be roaming streets for work too. It seems I know more about Lebanon than you do since I don't close my eyes to the facts. I am not Lebanese but it seems neither are you, didn't you mention they called you American and foreigner when you visited there?
Actually, Iran did work with the US in Afghanistan. The Israelis started crying about their nuclear program (only Israel is allowed to have nukes, and they don't allow weapons inspection), and Bush called the Iranians teh Axis of Evil. So the reformist government gets defeated in the elections, and Ahmadinejad comes in. Bush's rhetoric stirred up anti-Americanism, which elected Ahmadinejad. My impression, is that Iran is ready to be an ally to the US, but not a vassal state.
Im lebanese american dude, while i dont agree with lots of their culture i do know alot more about lebanon then you do. Remember my parents are lebanese so i happen to be in a situation where i could know alot about the current situation. I asked you to present the facts that prove that saniora is getting paid off by hariri. In fact hariris scholorship fund not only helped sunni muslims but shiit'es and christians. he didnt differentiate. He loved all lebanese. Pizzaman what do u think is in the works here? Do you think this situation is because of money? Its about control, land and influence. If syria doesnt get the golan heights back there will never be peace in lebanon. Hezbolla is only giving social healthcare to keep its militia strong. hezbolla wants to dominate lebanon. This taking of sunni strongholds in beirut was to bitch slap the sunnis, to tell them that at anytime they want , hezbolla and amal can take them out like nothing. Like i said, hezbolla better be careful, because al quaida is just itching for a crack at em. The lebanese christians so far have stayed out because the sunnis asked them to, but they wont stay out for long either. Hezbolla has opened the pandoras box. God help all of them Pizzaman this isnt about socio economic staus at all. My cousin went to aub with many shiite students. The opportunity now is that any lebanese can make it through the educational system. My dad was born in south lebanon, and was dirt poor most of his life but he was a worker like no other. He wasnt thinking of killing people, he was thinking of earning a living. Plus the lebanese land is very firtile, trust me dude you can survive in lebanon without working much. When i went back to the south in 2002 i saw the shack that my dad lived in. It was basically smaller then my room is now and 5 people lived in it. Do you see him thinking of killing anyone???????????????? What a load of bs Guerilla, all that has happened in iran could be laid at the footstep of our government starting from the 1950's till now. Ahmadinejad would have been some goatherder in iran right now if we didnt take out mossadegh because of oil. Yes gworld they called me the foreigner. Wanna know why? Because in lebanon if you dont make urself out to be a millionaire, show off, get plastic surgery and gossip then you are basically a foreigner. This was a cultural thing, as i was raised by the older generation lebanese and not this new "materialism on crack" culture thats there now. Why do you think the average lebanese complains about money yet takes out a loan for plastic surgery or hair replacement.
The government is being thwarted at every attempt at helping anyone by SYRIA and as for your post saying it was a criminal network involved. Yes , the syrian government criminal network. This is part of the current UN INVESTIGATION between a lebanese pro syrian official and the former syrian head of intelligence in lebanon General Ghazali . Its obvious that u didnt do your un report reading. Everyone and their grandmother knew syria was behind the hariri assassination and behind the killings of the anti syrian politicians. Now that i will prove it in this post maybe you will see the facts and the light. Or maybe you will still deny it and use the " it was isreals fault" card ? http://thinkingpoints.thengia.org/2008/04/04/the-un-continues-investigation-into-hariri-death.aspx Posted by N T Lihou at 4/4/2008 5:43 AM and is filed under Terrorist Attack Cycle,Saudi Arabia,Syria,Hezbollah,Iran The UN released a recent update (10th in a series of reports) on their investigation into the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri. February 14 was the third anniversary of the terrorist attack that killed the prime minister and 22 others. The UN Commissioner in charge of the investigation confirms that a criminal network aka "Hariri Network" was responsible for the reprehensible act. The prior Commissioner produced two reports. The October 2005 report named four Syrian security officials as suspects. According to the report: Documents collected from the former Syrian Intelligence post, Villa Jabr, at Bologna Forest, Lebanon and an intercepted telephone conversation between General Ghazali and a prominent Lebanese official on 19 July 2004, at 0945 hrs (excerpt): Ghazali: I know it is early but I thought we should keep up you posted. The President of the Republic told me this morning that they are two to rule the country the Prime Minister and him. He said that things cannot continue this way. The Prime Minister is always irritating him and we are always shutting him up and yelling at him. He made it clear he cannot continue this way. X: Take it easy on me. Can you appoint a new Government at this time? Ghazali: Yes we can appoint one. What could be the problem? We can name Botros Harb. Let me tell you one thing. Let the worker’s movement take the street on the 20th in Solidere and Koraytem. X: Let’s speak it over. Take it easily. I have to take into consideration the best interests of Syria and Lebanon. Ghazali: We are keen on Syria’s best interest but I am now talking about Rafik Hariri. X: So, the decision is taken. Ghazali: I wish to tell you one thing. Whenever we need to speak to Hariri we have to suck up to him and he does not always answer. X: To hell with him. What do I care about him? Ghazali: What do I care about him? The President can’t stand him so why should I? X: Fine, may he rot in hell … Ghazali: No. Let him be the laughing stock and be pointed at as the person who ruined and indebted the country. Let the people take the street in Koraytem and Solidere; let the manifestations continue until he is forced to resign like a dog. X: What about another option. I send him a message saying: Resign God damn it. Ghazali: No, don’t send him a message or else he will say they forced me to resign. Let the street … you know what I mean. Or else he will use this as a bargaining card with his American and French masters. X: So shall we leave things to the street? Ghazali: This is better. X: Let’s go for it.†At the beginning of January 2005, one of the high ranked officers told the witness that Rafik Hariri was a big problem to Syria. Approximately a month later the officer told the witness that there soon would be an “earthquake†that would re-write the history of Lebanon. General Jamil Al-Sayyed, according to the witness, cooperated closely with General Mustapha Hamdan and General Raymond Azar in the preparation of the assassination of Mr. Hariri. He also coordinated with General Ghazali (and, among others, people from Mr. Ahmad Jibreel in Lebanon). General Hamdan and General Azar provided logistical support, providing money, telephones, cars, walkie-talkies, pagers, weapons, ID-cards etc. Those who knew of the crime in advance were, among others, Nasser Kandil and General Ali Al-Hajj. Mr. Saddik stated that the decision to assassinate Mr. Hariri had been taken in Syria, followed by clandestine meetings in Lebanon between senior Lebanese and Syrian officers, who had been designated to plan and pave the way for the execution of the assault. These meetings started in July 2004 and lasted until December 2004. The seven senior Syrian officials and four senior Lebanese officials were alleged to have been involved in the plot. Conclusion: There is probable cause to believe that the decision to assassinate former Prime Minister, Rafik Hariri, could not have been taken without the approval of top ranked Syrian security official and could not have been further organized without the collusion of their counterparts in the Lebanese security services. Syria's former Vice-President, Abdul Halim Khaddam, said "President Bashar al-Assad threatened former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri only months before his death." The Hariri Network was formed before the assassination, conducted surveillance of the target, conducted the attack and some parts continue to exist to this day (a near-perfect example of the Terrorist Attack Cycle). In may circles Syria is believed to be behind the assassination plot. The recent Arab League Summit it hosted may be an indicator of Syria's strained relations with its Arab brethren. The summit only drew half of the 22 Arab countries. Understandably, Lebanon boycotted the summit completely. Saudi Arabia and Egypt only sent junior ministers instead of the respective heads of their countries, King Abdullah and President Mubarak. The Iranian foreign minister showed up as a reminder that Syria is Tehran's only Arab ally. The UN also feels that the security situation has deteriorated in Lebanon. Lebanon has been without a president since last November and again fingers point to Syria for the chaos. The problem with the election arises from disputes between the ruling majority and the Hezbollah-led opposition, supported by Syria and Iran. The presidential election, currently scheduled for April 22, has been rescheduled 17 times. The Commission is also investigating other attacks including eleven that targeted politicians, journalists and security officials such as Major General Francois Al-Hajj, Head of Operations of the Lebanese Armed Forces, and Major Wissam Eid, Head of the technical section of the Information Branch of the Internal Security Forces. There were nine attacks that did not involve the targeting of individuals but occurred in public places. TNT and RDX were used in the attacks. The UN has moved forward with preparations for an international tribunal. Under Secretary General for Legal Affairs Nicolas Michel stated that $60M has been allocated to the effort and a prosecutor has been appointed for the tribunal that will be based in the Netherlands. This action by the UN has undoubtedly made Hariri's murderers in Damascus and Tehran very nervous. The Arabs know the complicity of the Syrians as evidenced by their non-participation in the Summit. One could reasonably anticipate the deaths in the Hariri criminal network under mysterious circumstances as Iran and Syria cut ties to their hired killers.
Before you discuss anything, analyse Israel's special relationship with America, namely AIPAC and the American Tax payer... then make judgements, especially if your opinions come from American media.
you can't make a conclusion that Hizballah did it without a clear evidence, to say Hizballah, Iran, or Syria did it is just a possibility from many other possibilities. Maybe the killers meant to make you reach this conclusion by only targeting Hizballah and Syria opposites - is another possibility, or somebody meant to make Lebanon unstable and let the two fight is a third possibility .. and maybe there are more, I do not have an answer, I do not know.. pingpong, I m not pro-hizballah or pro-Government, I m Sunni although I do not like to say Sunni or Shi'iti. Muslim or Christians, in a country where all should live equally, I m not Lebanese as you know, I only wish to see Lebanon stable, and with the sensitivity there, and the long years of civil war which its Emir's are still alive and bombing people with speeches after speeches on TV, things should take time, to reach 100% stability, sudden moves, and decisions, might have violent reactions by some, I admire Hariri the father very much, he is an example, he been busy rebuilding Beirut, and building the country foreign policy, maybe if he had more time he would have moved to South, we should not forget also that without Hizballah people of South would have been still living under occupation until now, and South would have been planted with the nasty settlers, and you know what does this mean, I remember when General Lahd was speaking, and saying the South is the only liberated part in Lebanon ( during Israeli occupation) later, people of South were very happy that he and Israel were finally gone, then General Lahd and his group, been unwanted even Israel whom they served, did not want them, they surrendered to Hizballah, demands to disarm Hizballah would be understood as betray, or to support Israel, specially it has not been long when Hizballah 2000 fighters with their relatively simple weapons defeated the strongest army in the Middle East and the 4th strongest army in the world, which gave them even more popularity not only in Lebanon but also outside Lebanon, I think it would be hard to demand to disarm them suddenly, and make decisions against them, things should take time, and slowly do the changes via negotiations, if the Government want to gain its whole sovereignty over the country, I believe they should start by providing the people with the basics and slowly move up.