Texas Authorities Raid Polygamist Compound(400 kids taken from a polygamist compound)

There's a big difference between investigating an anonymous phone call and trying to get state custody of 400 children (based on that one anonymous complaint).

I'm sure if we all had access to all the data and findings it would be much easier to agree on a conclusion...

 

and it seems mighty convenient that they cannot locate the girl that made the complaint to begin with, so it makes one wonder...was there even a call made to begin with?

 

I would say it's mighty inconvenient that they can't locate her. It sounds like out of all the children there she was one of the most at risk ones. There is no reason to assume they fabricated the phone call.

The police have a duty to investigate allegations, Especially allegations of systematic sexual abuse on children. If these people are innocent then no evidence will be found, no charges will be brought and no convictions will result. Ultimately though the welfare of children is a far higher priority than the convenience of a religious group.

One man was already arrested for obstructing the search. So it makes one wonder, If they are innocent why obstruct a search that will prove it?

 

Every body tries to put some sense in your head but you totally ignore it and continue with your rant because it seems it is very difficult for you to accept that you can be wrong. Where did you see the information about children being beaten and gang raped by old man in this community as you try to portray it? I wonder how long it takes before you accuse them of killing their children and eating them to justify your disrespect for individual rights and correct procedures in criminal investigation.

Again with your "assumption", "IF, and "sounds like", how do you even know the caller belongs to that community? Why is there no reason to assume a false phone call? Just a simple list of people who could have made this phone call to serve their own agenda:

• 1- Fanatic Christians, believing that this group religious is against Jesus teaching
• 2- Feminists, thinking polygamy is disrespectful to women and it should be stopped.
• 3- Police officers, frustrated with 4 years investigation with no result looking for quick search order
• 4- A neighbor, who wants to make problem for them, so can buy the property cheap later on
• 5- .......

Even if there will be no conviction later on, it doesn't change the ordeal that this people will go through in the mean time. Don't you have any compassion for your fellow human being? It is not about convenience of one religious group, it is about protecting individual rights against the over reach of government machinery. The reason we must have laws that protects people's rights is that without it, ANY person can be harmed by over zealous government agents.

 

Apart for their leader being convicted of being an accessory to the rape of a child?

I didn't say it wasn't possible. I said there is no reason to assume it happened like that. I will repeat what i previously said because it seems things need to be explained to you more than once. There is no reason to assume the police fabricated the call.

Why do you want to cover up and protect people who allegedly (and in at least one case definitely do) rape children?

The fact is, Allegations have been made and suspicions are had. This NEEDS to be investigated, Especially considering that the cults leader is a convicted nonce.

 

Man files suit against LDS Church, Boy Scouts
A man has filed a $5 million lawsuit against the Boy Scouts and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, claiming the two entities didn't do enough to stop the sexual abuse of children by troop leaders.

The lawsuit was filed in Oregon State Court in eastern Oregon's Malheur County on Thursday by a man identified only as Tom Doe.

Doe alleges that the leader of his Nampa, Idaho, Boy Scout troop sexually abused him for about three years, starting in 1967, and that the abuse left him with debilitating physical, emotional and mental injuries.

source : http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695257346,00.html

 

If your atheist leader abuse a child does it make you a child abuser too as you are an atheist ?

 

Reread my posts in this thread. I'm tired of repeating myself for the benefit of the intellectually dishonest and lazy.

 

What is the issue??? This is not about a defense of the right to polygamy between consenting adults. Warren Jeffs is a convicted criminal sex abuser (further charges also pending), the compound was founded on his ideology, and female children are being married off to adult males. What the hell kind of rationalism excuses this?

And no, this group is not Mormon. The Mormons I know, my brother and his family included, are decent people, like most of us.

 

It seems every body else in this thread has to repeat himself for the benefit of the intellectually dishonest and lazy.

 

If you possessed the capacity to understand and take in my concise refutations you wouldn't find yourself in a position where your only option is to parrot your previous defence of paedophiles and their "rights".

The only thing the police can be criticised for is not raiding the ranch when this "leader" was first convicted of child abuse.

Why do you want to cover up and protect people who allegedly (and in at least one case definitely do) rape children?

The fact is, Allegations have been made and suspicions are had. This NEEDS to be investigated, Especially considering that the cults leader is a convicted nonce.

 

After reading your posts, I wonder who are more dangerous to the society in general, pedophiles or people like you who are always ready to be part of any lynch mob without any regard for individual rights or the innocents?

 

"A child protection supervisor testified Thursday that she encountered several pregnant teen girls at a polygamist ranch who called each other "sister wives" and who believed it was acceptable to be "spiritually united" with a man at any age." and "girls as young as 13 had conceived children at the ranch."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/17/polygamy.custody/index.html

"The children were initially housed in Eldorado's Baptist Fellowship Hall. "When they first came in the door, wearing long dresses, there were young ones carrying a kid, walking with a toddler and pregnant at the same time," Nikolauk said. "They looked like zombies; there was no expression in their eyes."
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1731706-2,00.html

The underage girls having babies are the innocents. They are forced into a long life of servitude to men and children, without ever having the opportunity to exercise their right to make independent adult choices about their lives.

It's a crime and a sin.

 

yes, it is a simple question. And the guy is playing with you, stirring you up..don't let him!

 

wait a minute...you are flaming someone who is outraged that crimes were committed against under-aged girls? Isn't the age of consent by law in most US states 16? Please correct me if I am wrong, because I'm Canadian and may just have my facts wrong.

stOx is condemming the rape of young girls, the forced marriages, child abuse!
this is not a religious issue, it's a morality issue. Actually, a criminal issue. And he is right to be outraged, as I am.

 

A child protective services supervisor took the stand this afternoon providing details for the first time about her encounter with FLDS members on the night of the raid.
Angie Voss testified she was escorted onto the YFZ Ranch in nearby Eldorado the night of April 3 by law enforcement officers. She was accompanied by a dozen case workers investigating complaints initially lodged by a 16-year-old girl named Sarah.
The girl had called a domestic violence hotline a few days earlier saying she was spiritually married to an older man who beat her, forced her to have sex, and held her at the ranch against her will. The caller said she had an 8-month-old baby and was several weeks pregnant with her second child. Voss said investigators hoped to find her among what they believed were about 150 people on the ranch.
In reality, there were more than 600 people there.
The supervisor testified that two men willingly let them inside after they had passed what she described as a guard tower several stories high with stairs leading to the top. She said there were men stationed at the tower.
She said she asked if there were any girls named Sarah living at the ranch. "They shook their heads and said there were no Sarahs living at the ranch," Voss said.

source : http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695271299,00.html

 

A hearing here on the fate of 416 children taken in a raid on a polygamist compound descended into chaos on Thursday as defense lawyers in two different locations entered a flurry of objections as the state tried to present its case.
Before the proceedings were recessed after about 45 minutes of wrangling, a lawyer for the state’s Department of Child Protective Services said it would seek psychiatric examinations for the children, as well as genetic testing of both the children and the adults, and would try to have the children relocated to other parts of the state, away from this town in west Texas.

The request for genetic testing appeared to be a way for officials to establish the family relationships between the children, many of whom appear to be half-brothers and half-sisters, and the adults involved.

Because of the large number of people involved, the session quickly became unwieldy, with the judge telling lawyers in the courtroom to coordinate their objections with those at the nearby city hall, where others were watching a live video of the proceedings. The recess came as state officials were attempting to introduce medical records of what were described as three underage girls.

"It is a huge logistical problem today," said Tom Vick, a lawyer from Weatherford, Tex., and member of the Access to Justice Commission created by the Texas Supreme Court who helped secure volunteer lawyers to represent the 416 children.

Full text : http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/u...em&ex=1208664000&en=1624fc229cff88af&ei=5087

 

No, no problem there. Unbelievable. And unbelievable people here rise to defend it.

 

I very much have regard for individual rights and the innocents. In this case though the rights i am concerned about are the rights of the children subjected to systematic sexual abuse and not the rights of their abusers.

I will repeat myself, Feel free to tell me where i am wrong; Allegations of sexual abuse have been made against a group whose ideology is based on the teachings of a convicted nonce. These allegations have to be investigated and taken seriously.

keep digging, We can still see you.

 

As I suspected...the phone call was indeed phony.