Texas Authorities Raid Polygamist Compound(400 kids taken from a polygamist compound)

If she was then the persons responsible should be punished but it doesn't justify an attack on a community based on their religion which accepts polygamy. From what I see for what ever reason there is an organized campaign against this group based on their religion and in my opinion people should not be punished based on their belief. We have a FLDS group in northern BC in Canada too. They live in a place called bountiful. Nothing has happened there but there is a journalist in Vancouver sun who has an article about them every couple of days and the whole point of these articles is that government should step in and destroy that community because as a woman she think polygamy is distasteful.

 

All I know is that in the village you don't see many women.

 

An attack on someones right to have multiple wives pales in comparison to a sexual attack on a child.

I have at no point attacked them for being in polygamous marriages, In fact i recently said i don't care about it at all, Someones sex life isn't any of my business. The polygamy is irrelevant, their religion is irrelevant. what is important is the fact that this cult apparently routinely abuse children, rape children, Beat children and force them in to marriages.

Defend their right to polygamy if you want, But let's sort out the child abuse first. Once that is sorted out then, and only then, Can we concern ourselves with the trivial matter of people criticising their polygamous marriages.

 

Why its too hard for you to understand.
You speak so surely about this community and their crimes that sometimes it make me think you were one of them or an insider!

If an Atheist rape does this mean all atheists are rapists?!!

There is going so many things behind the scene.

 

if that is the fact then why there is not more prosecution for these alleged crimes? Why is it that instead there is this collective persecution of the group?

Child abuse is a serious crime but it doesn't justify collective punishment. Let's for example say that some anonymous caller calls the police and says that you are abusing your child. Do you think the police should come and talk to you, go to your child school and talk with your child teachers and friends and try to find out if the allegations are true or not before acting or should they send a swat team to your house to remove the child at once?
Let's say you live in a apartment building and one of your neighbors has abused his child, do you think the police should remove your child too because you live in the same building?

This is not only about defending polygamy, it is about people right to have different religion or life style without fear of persecution.

 

If i had a history of serious child abuse like this cult does then i would expect them to take the child before any further allegations were made. With their history of abuse the last thing they should be allowed to do is live in a secluded isolated community with children.

If the abuse is as the allegations claim then i find it hard to believe that such a close knit community could be unaware of it. So in that sense, a collective punishment is the only suitable punishment for a collective crime.

It's widely known. Their leader was tried and convicted for being an accessory to the rape of a 14 year old girl. it's a fact that this cults leader is a child abuser. it's a fact that the cults leader was an accessory to the rape of a child.

Again, I'm not saying all mormans are child abusers. I am saying this particular cult have a history of it. I have made this point numerous times, So stop being a deceitful liar and stop making the same fatuous point. How many times do i have to repeat myself before you start understanding simple things written in simple English?

I will say it one more time; I'm not saying all mormons are child abusers

 

I haven't seen any allegation about child abuse about this particular community, have you? The whole thing has started with an ANONYMOUS caller which may or may not belong to this community.
What do you think will happen to the mental state of these 400 children who are taken from their home and parents by armed police officers? Where do you think they will be placed, in a Hilton hotel under the care of English nannies or in some foster homes? Do you know the amount of abuse and mistreatment that is going on in state foster homes? What happens if only 50 of this Children had a good home and instead of continuing with their life, they will be destroyed and abused under state care. There are a lot of "history" about all the gays being "sodomies", should all the children who have a gay family member be removed?
Law is about individual crimes and punishment, it is not about collective punishment based on religious belief, life style or rumors.

 

Apart from their leader being convicted for being an accessory to the rape of a 14 year old girl? No, None what-so-ever

This isn't a case of them being persecuted because of their religion or because they live in a secluded commune. it's about the authorities suspecting them of systematically abusing children.

Brilliant. so suspected child abusers shouldn't be investigated because the children might not like being taken away?

If the gays in question were participating in underage marriages and the sexual abuse of children while living in a secluded commune, or if they knew about such crimes and done nothing, then yes, The children should be taken away.

If their "religion" or "lifestyle" involves abusing children then all of them should be punished. It seems underage marriage is something practiced by this cult on a large scale, And as such all adults are guilty.

 

Osama bin laden is Muslim, therefore all Muslims are guilty of 9/11. This is called guilt by association, it is not valid in any court of law.

Suspicion is not proof, that is the reason behind the concept of "innocent until proven guilty", have you ever heard about that before?

If a doctor suspects cancer in a patient, they will run tests to see if there is a cancer, they will not open the patient and remove all his organs because they "suspect" cancer. Child removal is a drastic measure, every case should be investigated and treated on case by case bases.

I didn't say gay in question, I said about the "history" of gay being "sodomite" that many Americans believe in, with your reasoning, it must be enough to remove any child who has a gay family member.

 

If they knew what was going on, Which is likely, And chose to do nothing and/or facilitated the crime, Then they are accessories. being an accessory to a crime is a crime in it's self. If someone knows that children are being abused and does nothing should they not be punished?

Have you heard about reading something before replying to it? I never said suspicion is proof. I said suspicion is a reason to investigate. They are investigating this cult based on accusations and suspicions. Nobody is going to be convicted on suspicions, They will be convicted on the strength of the evidence. Evidence which is currently being gathered and evidence that some of the cult members are trying to hide [1].

Child removal is drastic, But then so is sexual abuse. The authorities don't remove children unless they have a very good reason to. In this case it is the suspicion that the children are being systematically abused by a cult. In my book you can't find a much better reason for removing children.

The children haven't been put in to care and probably wont be. The Children, Along with the women, Have been taken somewhere else while the authorities search the cults ranch and question the men who are being held there.

What the fuck are you talking about? Let's try to discuss this using proper words and keep the contrived, manufactured analogies to a minimum.

 

IF and IF and IF.

Let's first assume that something was going on and then let's assume that people knew about it and then based on all these assumption and IFs let's do what ever we want.

I suppose you need to know the definition of accessory before start throwing it around:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/accessory

Being an accessory needs active action, can you show me any proof that they have been active in concealing any crime.

 

I didn't claim to have evidence of anything, That's what they are looking for now. What i said was should the evidence be found the people involved should be prosecuted and should be imprisoned. Do you not agree?

If the people knew of crimes being committed against children of a sexual nature and done nothing to stop it they should be prosecuted and imprisoned. Do you not agree?

WWJD? Hide and defend a paedophile?

 

When authorities moved to search the large white temple on the polygamist compound in West Texas, about five dozen of the sect's men prayed and cried around the structure, state investigators said Thursday.


Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran also said he had been working with a confidential informant for four years who was feeding him information about life inside the polygamist sect.

Doran declined to say whether the informant was in Texas or other sect compounds in Utah or Arizona. It wasn't until after the search had begun that Doran learned about marriage beds in the temple and the forced marriages of underage girls to older men.

"It was instrumental in teaching me the group's ways," Doran said.

But state authorities defended their decision to leave the sect alone for the four years it had encamped in West Texas. Video Watch why officials proceeded cautiously »

"We are aware that this group is capable of (sexually abusing young girls)," Doran said. "But there again, this is the United States. We are going to respect them. We're not going to violate their civil rights until we get an outcry. I've said that from day one."

Texas Ranger Capt. Barry Caver said some of the 57 men near the wall were on their knees praying. Others sobbed. One resisted officers' attempt to enter the area and was arrested.

When authorities finally gained entrance to the three-story building, no one was inside.

But on the top they found beds allegedly used by husbands after they married underage girls on the top floor of the temple.

He said authorities made the temple the last stop on the weeklong search because "if there was going to be any resistance at all it would be then."
Caver also described the difficulties faced by child welfare officials in finding and removing all 416 children from the compound.

The children "were shuffled around houses as we were searching," he said, noting that as soon as they saw children in one house, they would be quickly ushered to other houses.

Officials have left the compound and still have not identified the 16-year-old girl who called to report she had been beaten and raped by her husband.

"When you're dealing with a culture like this, they're taught from very (early) on that they don't answer questions to the point," Doran said. "And we may very well have her at Child Protective Services. All of that is certainly being sorted out right now."

The discovery of the marriage beds in the temple was revealed Wednesday as troopers completed their search of the grounds of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

full article : http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/10/texas.ranch.ap/index.html

 

So you think it is OK to attack people home on "suspicion" of a crime without any actual proof looking for an evidence.

If Muslims knew about 9/11 then they should be prosecuted and imprisoned, don't you agree? So in the mean time let's round up all Muslims and put them in prison while looking for "evidence".

Luckily for society and people, the judicial system doesn't work in that way, most of the time.


What the hell is WWJD?

 

I asked you two questions. Answer them, Now. Or are you going to continue to evade dialogue in your continued defence of suspected paedophiles?

Nobody is being attacked, stop being a drama queen. An allegation was made, Information from an informant has been gathered and the authorities are investigating it. it's what needs to be done.

Yes, I do agree.

 

Men who prayed and cried, definitely sign of guilt.

Unknown informant who might have been in Texas, Utah or Arizona, even more proof.

Group who is "CAPABLE" of abusing girls, isn't every man capable?

They found bed that can be used for abusing girls, isn't every bed in any place can be used for same purpose?

The 16 years old girl caller is not identified, so as far as we know the caller can be a 60 years old man.

The people that are taken hasn't said anything but because they have learned not to say anything, the fact that they haven't said anything proves that they are guilty.

With so much "proof", they must be guilty.

 

It would have been a discussion if you knew anything about common law or criminal law, burden of proof and individual rights in a lawful society but it seems every time I point out to your lack of knowledge, you run and hide behind your nonsense of defending pedophiles, so what is the point to discuss it?

 

The definition of accessory that you posted clearly supported what i said. If there are people in the cult who knew about the abuses and done nothing they are accessories, They should be tried and they should be imprisoned. One man has already been arrested for obstructing the investigation.

Of course the burden of proof is with the authorities. I never claimed it wasn't. I never said this cult had to prove their innocence. But when allegations are made and information from an informant is gathered the authorities have to investigate. No trials or convictions will come as a result of allegations, it will be as a result of evidence. what they are doing now is looking to see if there is any evidence that supports the allegations.

If they find no evidence supporting the allegation then no arrests will be made and no convictions will be given.

I don't see what you are so afraid of. Surely the welfare of children is the priority here is it not?

Now, If you would like to answer the questions i put to you before and stop evading them like a coward we might get somewhere, You never know, You may be able to claw back some of the integrity you have lost through your support of suspected paedophiles and their "rights".

 

It seems not only you don't know about law, you are not capable of reading either. The definition doesn't support your nonsense, it states that in needs ACTIVE participation.

If they really cared about welfare of children, they wouldn't wait 4 years, would they? There are far better ways to deal with this situation than this without trampling all over individual rights.

By the way, if you are going to accuse some one of something, at least learn to spell it right.

 

"An accessory must knowingly promote or contribute to the crime."
By allowing their daughters to be married to old men or by participating in a group which they know does it they are "promoting and contributing to a crime".

Irrelevant

By asking them politely if they are abusing children? get in the real world.

What word did i misspell?

hint: Do a google search before saying anything else, It might save you the embarrassment of claiming an "Americanized" version of an English word is the correct spelling. We have kindly given you a language, Show some respect by not fucking it up and them claiming it as your own.