how do you know you picked the right religion?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by atvking, Apr 6, 2008.

  1. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #21
    there are (and were) no miracles.

    ok, IMO I should say...
     
    cientificoloco, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  2. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #22
    In fact imad was smart and instead of ignoring the fact that Koran was wrong, he tried to make a justification that accepts the fact without admitting that Koran is wrong but it is obvious to any THINKING man that the pair in that verse refers to male and female as the story of Noah ark confirms that interpretation. :)
     
    gworld, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  3. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #23
    But it's not wrong gworld, you can't come up with a logical argument for why it is wrong either, im afraid your anti religion ego is getting ahead of you.
     
    ThraXed, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  4. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #24
    So do you really think that God one day sat down and made 2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 cows, 2 elephants,.... and when he got tired of making all these animals, he made the Adam and Eve? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  5. imad

    imad Peon

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    #25
    I can understand from this that your view about God is that he is a human-shaped being, or that you felt the need to describe God.

    during history many people fall into this, which lead people to made their own Gods sometimes from wood, clay.. or to follow their imagination and then believe in it, at that time they thought they understand everything and know everything, but as their knowledge increase, they felt they no longer view God as a piece of wood or stone they made and later they asked it to do things to them.

    so they rejected that idea which lead some of them to believe that God does not exist (Atheists) or that its impossible to know whether God exists or not (Agnostics)

    I think the modern Atheists and Agnostics belief was based on the rejection of the Christianity view about God, as an old man (the father), or as human-God( Jesus) or as a holy trinity, so they rejected religion and they like built an understanding that religion whether Christianity, or Islam or else is the same. Its until the last 200 years after the Church stopped killing people for not accepting that view, we are seeing more of these people who reject anything religion.

    Human knowledge is limited, but at each period they think they understood everything, as in the Church before, but as their knowledge increase they discover that the people before them did not know everything.

    there are things that we know they do exist but we can't see or smell or touch.. like the radio waves for example, we experience them through their effects and using special equipment, we can see radio waves effects but we can't see radio waves.

    we also know that infinity exists but we can't see it, count from 1 to 10, easy,, keep adding.. can you tell me what is the biggest number? you will keep counting forever without reaching the biggest number, you will need 100 lifes and you still did not reach the biggest number, so infinity does exist but we can't see it.

    so people built different theories about it, none of them could be proved but they can be believed, and as people knowledge increase such theories fall, thats why there is a conflict between science and religion, thats why Church at some time burned those who said Earth is not the center of the universe.

    and thats why some try to accuse Islam with the same, Islam never been in fight with science and nothing in Islam was against science whether modern or old, Islam caused a revolution in science at a time Europe and rest of the world was in dark ages, Islamic civilization was giving light to the world, nobody can deny that, this alone can be a big topic for some, you can do some research about Islam and modern science.

    for now, the view of God as a human-shaped being is been rejected, we can't describe God but we can see his effects, and we know about him what he wanted us to know about him which he revealed to prophets and which is written in Quran, that there is nothing like him, that he is not a male or female, that he has no son or wife, that he created the universe and before he created the universe there was no universe, so its wrong to view God as a part of the universe because he created the universe and he is the only one who can create from none, he does not sit and create cats and dogs, if he want something he just tell it be and it will be, he does not get tired, and he does not sleep.
     
    imad, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  6. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #26
    Any proof that Moses, Jesus or Mohammad weren't just hallucinating when they talked with God? Modern science has a name for people who hear voices or see non existence images. :)

    The base of your argument is that we should accept some unknown entity without any logical thinking or proof which is exactly what blind faith is. As I mentioned before it can be fine for you but in all seriousness you can not accept other people to also accept it.
     
    gworld, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  7. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #27
    The proof that he was not hallucinating is the Quran itself. What book can tell the purpose of life, solve all societys problems, give loads of new knowledge and guidance, in one big poem? The Quran says, if you are in doubt of what we have revealed, then produce a Surah like it. the shortest Surah has something like 30 words, yet nobody has been able to produce anything like the prose in the Quran.

    Also, many people all over the world have memorized the Quran, it is embedded in their memory, even kids at the age of 3, and even people who do not know Arabic!

    We have made the Qur'an easy to remember… (Qur'an, 54:22)

    If you have doubts about what We have sent down to Our servant, produce another sura equal to it, and call your witnesses, besides Allah, if you are telling the truth. (Qur'an, 2:23)

    Do they say, "He has invented it"? Say: "Then produce a sura like it and call on anyone you can besides Allah if you are telling the truth." (Qur'an, 10:38)

    We did not teach him poetry nor would it be right for him. It is simply a reminder and a clear Qur'an so that you may warn those who are truly alive and so that the Word may be carried out against the disbelievers. (Qur'an, 36:69-70)

    The formation of rhymed prose with just two or three sounds in a poem of 200-300 lines may give that work an important quality, sufficient for it to be described as a masterpiece by literary critics today. However, bearing in mind the length of the Qur'an, the information it contains and its wise exposition, the extraordinary manner in which its rhymed prose system is used becomes even clearer and more beautiful. The Qur'an indeed contains an ocean of information relating to a wide variety of subjects. They include: religious and moral guidance, lessons from the lives of the peoples of the past, the message of the Prophets and Messengers of Allah, the physical sciences and historical accounts of important events. But all of this, although wonderful in itself, is delivered with the most fantastic literary rhythm and excellence. It is simply not possible for so much rhymed prose by use of so few sounds in the Qur'an, with its varied and knowledgeable subject matter, to be achieved by human endeavour. From that point of view, it is not surprising that Arab linguists describe the Qur'an as "very definitely inimitable."

    http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/perfection_01.html
     
    ThraXed, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  8. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #28
    I have read many books that I found much more interesting than Koran. I don't know what version of Koran you are talking about but the one that I read, didn't solve all society problems or explained the purpose of life. I don't rate Koran very highly as scientific or literally work. :)

    And I know of a parrot who can curse at you in many different languages, so what?
     
    gworld, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  9. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #29
    You have to read it in Arabic to understand the true miracle of it. But to get it's message is perfectly clear in English.
     
    ThraXed, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  10. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #30
    It seems your God is not very smart, if he truly wanted the people to undertsand his message, wasn't better to send it in English or Spanish instead of Arabic in this case? :rolleyes:

    All the talk about the litterally value of koran is nothing more than marketing talk. I have spoken with Arabic speaking people and they could not see anything very significant in it compare to other Arabic work either. This type of belief is quite common, many Christians find hidden meanings in bible too.
     
    gworld, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  11. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #31
    The world miracle is persistently used incorrectly when used to point at something in the koran. The last few times someone posted the list of "miracles" there wasn't one miracle listed. Could you show one miracle that is in the koran?

    Something like how Jesus walked on water or turned water into wine. Maybe someones legs being healed after being crippled for more than 40 years.
     
    debunked, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  12. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #32
    again, there are no miracles (I mean actual miracles, not things that look incredible)
     
    cientificoloco, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  13. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #33
    Are you going to turn this in to who was the better magician competition, Jesus or Mohammad? :D
     
    gworld, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  14. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #34
    The Prophet split the moon in two.

    http://islambyquestions.net/miracles/moon.htm

    Scientists have recently discovered there is a huge fault line across the whole moon, from an earthquake over a thousand years ago.

    The Miracle of the splitting of the moon was demonstrated 1400 years ago for people who persisted in denial of Muhammad’s Prophethood. As was related by Adbullah ibn Mas‘ud, while they were in Mina one night, Prophet Muhammad split the moon into two by a gesture of his index finger. The halves of the moon appeared one behind the mountain and the other in front of it. Then, the Prophet turned to us and said: ‘Be witnesses!’

    The Qur’an refers to this miracle in the following verses:

    "The Hour has approached, and the moon split. But whenever they see a sign, they turn away and say, ‘This is evident magic’." [Quran - 1:2]

    http://miracles-of-allah.blogspot.com/2006/12/crack-on-moon.html

    [​IMG]
     
    ThraXed, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  15. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #35
    So you are saying that Mohammad was a better magician than Jesus and therefore your prophet wins over debunk Jesus? :D

    How do you and debunk think that those guys compare with new guys in Las Vegas? Have you seen the TV show when the guy disappears a Jumbo Jet? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  16. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #36
    "The Hour has approached, and the moon split. But whenever they see a sign, they turn away and say, ‘This is evident magic’." [Quran - 1:2]
     
    ThraXed, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  17. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #37
    Nobody said that Mohammad was not a smart person, he already knew that the THINKING man will not believe in such nonsense and therefore condemned them in forehand. :D
     
    gworld, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  18. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #38
    How is it nonsense? A recent photo from NASA using Apollo 10 and Apollo 11 shows a clear indication that the Moon was split in the past.

    [​IMG]
     
    ThraXed, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  19. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #39
    those are very common structures appearing very often in all (rocky) planets and moons. It;s no indication of any split, just some sort of fault. if moon had split we should have two half-moons by now. did he split it and glued it back together? what is "the past"? 1400 years ago? what is the age of this structure?
    this is no proof or whatsoever. you can find 'proofs' for anything. had he said "and by the grace of god I will throw giant eggs on the moon" you'd have found the proof in the craters.
     
    cientificoloco, Apr 7, 2008 IP
  20. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #40
    Are you being serious or just taking the piss?

    Anyway here's another.

    The number of times the words "man" and "woman" are repeated in the Qur'an, 23, is at the same time that of the chromosomes from the egg and sperm in the formation of the human embryo. The total number of human chromosomes is 46; 23 each from the mother and father.

    The word "land" appears 13 times in the Qur'an and the word "sea" 32 times, giving a total of 45 references. If we divide that number by that of the number of references to the land we arrive at the figure 28.888888888889%. The number of total references to land and sea, 45, divided by the number of references to the sea in the Qur'an, 32, is 71.111111111111%. Extraordinarily, these figures represent the exact proportions of land and sea on the Earth today.
     
    ThraXed, Apr 7, 2008 IP