many Americans are the worst with money...this is a crisis in the US

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by DharmaSeo, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. webwork

    webwork Banned

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    47
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #61
    But why....
     
    webwork, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  2. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

    Messages:
    15,825
    Likes Received:
    1,367
    Best Answers:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    455
    #62
    Reason is to prevent you from appearing in TV in the same situation for that lady....


     
    wisdomtool, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  3. korr

    korr Peon

    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    38
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #63
    For some reason everything I read about politics and economics these days reminds me of a recent Megadeth song:

    Disengage their minds, sabotage their health
    Promote sex, and war, and violence in the kindergartens
    Blame the parents and teachers; it's their fault, "Annuit Coeptis"
    Attack the church dynamic, attack the family
    Keep the public undisciplined till nothing left is sacred and
    The "have-nots" get hooked and have to go to the "haves" just to cop a fix


    Washington is Next lyrics


    Does it really matter what the families or the teachers or the religious leaders teach if they're up against a much bigger propaganda campaign? A constant assault of political controversies and media bytes? Two years ago you couldn't go anywhere without being bombarded with "expert analysts" explaining the value of interest only balloon ARMs and all the reasons why you should buy a third house.
     
    korr, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  4. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

    Messages:
    7,298
    Likes Received:
    416
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #64
    The crazy part of the video is the lady saying she took off her Tiffany bracelet, etc... If she needs the money she has plenty of useless stuff to sell.

    But at the same time, bankruptcy will probably work better in her favor.

    I can't imagine having an interest only loan where you paid that much a month! wow!
     
    debunked, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  5. goldenbrowngod

    goldenbrowngod Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    2
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    #65
    I agree with you on the fact that our taxes could be spent much more wisely.


    but I still feel soniqhost statement about us not having much incentive to save is untrue. And taking that into account many of us who could save our money but instead we go and buy stuff we really don't need.
     
    goldenbrowngod, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  6. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

    Messages:
    7,298
    Likes Received:
    416
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #66
    The one thing I have seen is more and more people not regarding savings in a bank collecting small amounts of interest as a wise "savings plan", so most people I know have their "savings" in stocks, real estate, etc... Higher risks with higher rewards. Now is that "wrong"?
     
    debunked, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  7. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    509
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    235
    #67
    That's why the upper class has the money and the lower classes are broke.

    I hate stuff. The less the better.
     
    bogart, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  8. readezarchive

    readezarchive Active Member

    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    10
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    80
    #68
    I can agree with some of the statements, americans are very bad about overspending. But it's not all stupidity. From the moment your turn 18 you're receiving credit card applications in the mail, and you're facing 20-80,000 in student loans if you decide to go to college
     
    readezarchive, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  9. webwork

    webwork Banned

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    47
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #69
    That's why there's no reason financial education should not be in American schools.

    We have PE, history, science... No classes about money? It's clearly one of the most important subjects one will face.
     
    webwork, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  10. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    509
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    235
    #70
    They have home economics and math in the schools.
     
    bogart, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  11. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    262
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #71
    I'm with you brother. Minimalism is the new cool. Chicks totally dig it.
     
    guerilla, Mar 31, 2008 IP
  12. Bochno

    Bochno Peon

    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #72
    This is so true.
     
    Bochno, Apr 1, 2008 IP
  13. korr

    korr Peon

    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    38
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #73
    Sounds like the deeper problem with inflation. Since "normal" conservative savings can't keep up with a constantly de-based currency, the "efficient markets" compensate by following the lead of the central planners into the riskier assets.

    To protect the herd, the central planners inflate and re-flate the riskier assets, but they're really just redistributing the cost of losses to the general population.
     
    korr, Apr 1, 2008 IP
  14. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    262
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #74
    The interest that is being paid on bank deposits does not reflect a likely market rate of interest. It is manipulated by easy credit from the FED.

    Right now, lending is tightening up, capital is in short supply or being hoarded. That would logically mean rates should be high, at least near the likely 8~12% inflation we're currently experiencing.

    Instead, rates are ridiculously low, removing any incentive to save. But this is being done artificially, not dictated by the pressures of the marketplace (supply, demand etc) but by "central planners". Banker-politicians.

    Money is not wealth in our system. A guy at the FED goes to a computer, punches in a number, and voila, $10 million are created.

    Now go and try to create $10 million in tangible wealth (foodstuffs, manufactured goods, services etc.). A lot harder than 2 minutes at a computer terminal...
     
    guerilla, Apr 1, 2008 IP
  15. gauharjk

    gauharjk Notable Member

    Messages:
    2,430
    Likes Received:
    135
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    230
    #75
    I have just read the Compound interest Paradox and Discounted Cashflow Paradox on http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com

    IMHO, economist experts Guerilla and Korr should discuss it more openly, coz it seems the concept is very important. This stuff is plaguing most of the economies in the world, trying to imitate the American way of "Over-Consumption" life.

    The outstanding debt in a country is always more than the total money in circulation in that country. This is because the only way to introduce money into the system is through debt (or Trade surplus). In the end, the banks always win. This system is skewed in favour of international banks.
     
    gauharjk, Apr 1, 2008 IP
  16. lpstong

    lpstong Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,292
    Likes Received:
    216
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    230
    #76
    Number one, You cant compare third world/underdeveloped worlds such as India and the US. You can only compare only maybe the standard of living in some aspect. But how many people actually have food on their table, earning a livable wage, have their children at home and not in sweat shops in India.

    Number two, I live in Los Angeles and $70,000 is nothing. In fact if a family that earns $50,000 on average is considered low middle income tettering on the poverty level. Poverty level use to be under $24,000. But with programs that the US government is making with Aftra/WTO. Forcing a lot of low paying jobs to other countries which outsource and are known for it like India. Where in the US someone making nike shoes or tshirts are being payed a livable wage vs. Indian children who are enslaved and sold because the parents do not have enough money. And are being payed paupers money such as 3 - 5 cents a day. Considering that Nike shoes are like anywhere $50 to over $200 and tshirts are over $20 - $50 plus. I do realise shipping cost and embargo et cetera. But shipping in bulk surpasses the fees being charged. The profit margin is incredible.

    So to say that people like in India who are doing so well in saving are actually not. They are an elitist group and does not fairly protray the numbers in general for the Indian population.
     
    lpstong, Apr 1, 2008 IP
  17. DharmaSeo

    DharmaSeo Peon

    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes Received:
    16
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #77
    when comparing with nations like india, the values can be compared, not the position. The reality is american culture has created a thirst for SPENDING beyond ones means...even though they get free education, gov't support and an OPPORTUNITY to make a living

    WHEREAS in india 70% of the population does not even have an opportunity. So lets compare the 30% of india that does, and they definately save more, spend less and do not buy beyong their means
     
    DharmaSeo, Apr 1, 2008 IP
  18. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    262
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #78
    I'm not an economics expert, but I am a keen enthusiast.

    The deeper I get into it, understanding the monetary system (in my opinion) is the key to everything. The key to war, the key to politics, the key to class divides, the cipher on the encryption of history, the key to development and advancement as a species.

    Honestly, who voted for who, who's pastor said what, who will draw down troops, who represents what religion and the merits of each religion, who is white, black, male, female, democrat, republican, libertarian, it is all irrelevant.

    There are two kinds of people who frustrate me to no end.

    1. They hear this, and they dispute it. Without facts, without evidence, without rational thinking on their own behalf. A lot of doctrine and propaganda.

    2. The people who hear this and go, "Hells Yeah" or "Hmmmm, that's pretty interesting.", and then 5 minutes later go back to discussing FITNA or the last episode of American Idol.
     
    guerilla, Apr 1, 2008 IP
  19. mythbuster08

    mythbuster08 Peon

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    4
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #79
    If you think so, you'd better read some books from my fellow countryman Karl Marx. He found a nice way to overcome all this problems. Unfortunately it doesn't work. Not because of the monetary system, but because the typical human is an egoistic a**hole - I mean at least those who live now are the winners of some billion years of evolution.

    BTW "money" in human history is quite a new concept. There have been (and still there are) many societies that did not know the concept of money. They did/do know the concept of war, class division, etc.

    And? Would it make a difference if it would be discussed more or longer?
     
    mythbuster08, Apr 1, 2008 IP
  20. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    262
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #80
    Marxism has been debunked for quite some time. Socialism doesn't calculate and the Labor Theory of Value is a farce IMO.

    So no, Marx didn't figure out how to overcome anything. If anything, he's helped muddy the intellectual waters, as we have people who thrive, survive and enjoy life because of capitalism, running around screaming that capitalism is evil and capitalists are exploiters. Anyone who works more than they need to survive to buy a TV, to take a vacation, to save up for the down payment on a home, is a capitalist.

    I'm tired of people saying man is evil. That is so much bull$hit. If Marxists and Socialists hate the human species so much, why not do us all a favor and go off yourselves?

    You know what class warfare is? A bunch of whiny socialists with envy because someone else inherited money, or someone got rich quick, or someone invented something of value. "If he can have advanced medical care, why can't I?" the socialist answer to which is to take it from someone else, instead of going out and achieving/providing it for themselves.

    Because that is what it is to be a socialist. You would rather take someone else' productivity through law or taxation and gift it to another person, than actually create a productive gain yourself and share it through charity.

    Name them.

    It would have a chance to overcome the ignorance you displayed earlier in your reply.
     
    guerilla, Apr 1, 2008 IP