You didn't and I never said that you did. Raithe made that statement. You got involved in a question that wasn't addressed to you. The DEA is part of the U.S. department. I didn't ask for medical studies conducted in the U.S. I just asked for medical studies. The studies could have been conducted anywhere, as long as it was backed up by empirical evidence. I'm rather confused why you're insisting I should be outraged by the DEA. Should I be outraged because you're outraged? Should I be outraged because I too live in the U.S.? Is there another reason? My posts are pointless to you because I simply do not agree with your arguments. Furthermore, you're forming conclusions out of air. Take for example, "Ahh but you don't mind the government blocking such studies." I made no such argument nor inferred that. I'm looking for cohesive arguments to support legalization of MJ for social purposes (not medical). Medical reasons I can support when there's evidence to back it up. For social reasons I haven't heard a good reason yet. Again, I'm not looking for comparisons with legalized products. The courts won't accept that type of argument. Neither do I.
I got involved in a discussion I was already involved in. Are you serious? You want evidence, you want studies, you want it to be legal or illegal on it's own merits, yet you have no problem with the government not allowing studies that would end the debate once and for all. Just when I heard it all. Your posts are pointless because you have driveled on off topic, simply going on and on about you want studies but don't care that the studies are blocked. You didn't 'infer' it, sure there buddy. It's been pointed to you over and over, the point brought up and instead you came back with such classics as Ahh so what type of 'argument' would you accept? Since the government wont allow studies most of the time I guess that makes it pretty damn hard. You surely come off as someone who simply wants it to remain illegal, if you wanted it on it's 'merits' studies would be needed, studies you claim you want, yet appear to have no problem with the government not allowing the very studies you want. Now if you don't have anything to actually add as it surely appears, can we stop this mindless babbling of yours? For real, simply idiotic wanting 'studies' but appearing to have no problem that our own government stops these 'studies'
weed is good anyways, if you start talking about what is less or more harm for your body - you should know everything is harm in some way, if you live in megapolis, where a lot of smoke from cars, and you still smoke cigarettes even if you are non-smoker, because someone will smoke near you this day or other, and you won't avoid it. Water you get from your kitchen is dirty, even if you clean it 10 times. So where was I? If you kind enough you can do some tries, enjoy them, have fun and not ordinary time, no need to do it too often, and you won't get your life shorter. maybe it's too personal opinion, but still all depends only on your own body and mind. How will you manage taking harmful thing inside yourself? I heard some people eat metall nails, and don't die.
Ahh 'thousands' yet there are only 2724 total members there. Thousands would normally mean multiple thousands, so now I guess 2,000+ could weakly be considered 'thousands' but you expect me to believe every single person in this community not only had pot cause it, but they know enough about the subject to conclude pot caused it. Interesting. Actually yes you were, and I quote just one such instance. They revolve around it like prohibition did. You are making a case for legalizing in your argument to keep it illegal. Do you honestly think if pot was legal gangs would make money off of selling it? Violence again is from the sale, not from the use. Thanks for bringing up points to legalize it in your lame attempt to bring up points to keep it banned. Oh my god this is seriously the best you can do? You honestly have no clue on the real drug market, it's shining through in your posts. Crack and heroin might be 'cheap' it however is extremely addictive which pot is not. Crack and heroin users can and will spend every single dime they have on the substance, pot users will buy a bag and in most cases it will last them a pretty long time. You claim he has 'at least a 1/2 ounce on him' at all times. Well considering it's obvious you have no real clue on the subject, besides being someone around it once in awhile I don't fully believe you, but still I guess lets go with that thought. 1/2 ounce of even extremely good weed bought in the city, maybe $200, maybe a bit more. Most however who buy real good weed unless they are extremely rich buy it by the 1/8 at a time so I'm guessing this was just standard smoke. Granted prices do differ depending on where you live, the point is simply this. Pot smokers do not smoke like crack users or heroin users. Even if you seen him roll up a few blunts a few times, that was more than likely either A. because someone was there. B. he does it so they are rolled up in advance. There is simply no way you are going to convince me that a guy is so addicted to 'pot' that he lives in his car but spends a thousand dollars a month. That is simply not the case with even the worst pot smokers out there. Most pot smokers if they have no pot but want to get stoned will go over by a buddies house. A crack user will rob someone. Of course every user is different, just as someone who wants a brand new WII might save up to buy it, or steal it. Pot does not cause the addictiveness to lose everything, live out of a car spending a thousand a month. Ahh just as someone may or may not steal someones WII game. Pot is not a violent drug, nor is it an addictive drug such as crack and coke. Tully appears to me as you're someone who loves to blame problems on something other than the person themselves. I knew people that would steal for pot as well, these same people 'like it or not' were those who would steal before smoking pot. 'Getting mad over who is smoking too much' well that's kind of like getting mad over chipping into buying a pizza and someone ate more than their share. Lets ban pizza now. Another great point to make it legal. There is always going to be assholes, to blame it on pot is just plain silly. I have read on this before, NEVER have I read pot can actually cause it. Source please? Everything I have read states you MUST ALREADY HAVE IT, even if it's hidden and you don't know it, the sources I have read state clearly you must already have it. Even if it did cause it, again peanuts kill people, lets ban all peanuts.
LOL. Alright, GRIM. There's no point continuing this argument when you can't remain civil or coherent.
There is no point in continuing this argument as you obviously have no want or need to be in this actual discussion.
Well, if you didn't abuse the use of Marijuana, then it cannot be assume as a drug... As we know, most of the ancient peoples used this Marijuana for the pain killer remedy, especially in the ancient royal family...
There hasn't been enough research done on depersonalization to know everything about it. They're starting to do a lot of research regarding marijuana/depersonalization. I was actually contacted once to take part in a study... I didn't go though.. Now I wish I did. I don't know why you want to argue with me on this because I wouldn't say this stuff if it wasn't the experience that I have had with it, along with the people I know who have depersonalization. It may not be highly documented but there is a STRONG link between the two, and that shouldn't be looked over, or the evidence will continue to be vague.... All I know is that I wouldn't want to have children in the future and have them have more access to it. Who knows, maybe it would be harder to buy. But although the percentage of teens who smoke pot is high for a drug, not every person smokes. It seems amazing with all the pot movies, songs, etc., but its true. There are a lot of people who have never smoked in their lives. And not everyone is above the law. There are a lot of 15 year olds who wouldn't risk doing something illegal and getting arrested. My boyfriend's sister and her friends are those kid of people. How would that change if they saw people on the street doing it? First of all, I have used heroin before and I never robbed someone... Second, I do know what an oz is, and that is what I've seen him buy. It wasn't the best weed I've smoked but it was pretty good. I guess it sounds craaaazy to you because you've never seen someone who smokes that much pot, but they do exist. Just like occasional hard-drug users exist. Now I'm just waiting for you to tell me its IMPOSSIBLE to use heroin for a month or two at a time and then stop. But... You're going to have to take my word for it, because I'm not going to drop all the knowledge I have about it on this site... There are heroin and crack users who spend their last dime on it, but there are actually a lot of young users, who I used to do it with... We would get some money, grab a bundle in Asbury, and split it among us. We'd hang out, go back to our homes, and do it again the next day. We were not scraping every last penny in our houses to do it... Although I do know thats what it leads to, I've seen that too. EDIT: i'm not saying heroin use is in anyway better than pot, or condoning it whatsoever... I'm just saying that your idea of heroin wasn't my personal experience with it, just for reference. I'm sure if my friend's dad had some serious circumstance he would be able to quit smoking for awhile. There is no physical withdrawal that would make him have to smoke no matter what. But I would call someone like him psychological addicted, and it does happen. Anyone who smokes every day even when they're not really in the mood is an addict. I've lived with tons of people who spend wayyy too much on pot... I had a boyfriend who wanted to quit because he was spending too much on it but every time I would tell him to stop he would say "ok, i'm just going to pack one bowl..." which would happen every day, heh. There were plenty of kids in outpatient rehab who were there for pot. Even though we would get drug tests all the time, they would still smoke before we went in. I even did it once. With my charges I could have went to juvi for constantly failing drug tests, and probably got my ass kicked by my parents, but I took that chance anyway because I felt like I had to smoke pot. I would call that addicted.. (I was 15 by the way, just saying because I know that sounds really stupid heh) It may be the better of two evils but the best thing is not to do it. Its a waste of money, energy and time. Yeah it does happen, that guy was living proof
Ahh so showing you embelished the numbers, and the facts is a bad thing? There are possible links, just as there are with many other drugs including caffeine, nothing shows it is caused by marijuana yet you state it is. Even still yet again, milk, peanuts, hell water can kill people. Should all of these items be banned? Are you serious? So you'd rather have the children lied to about marijuana such as the government does now, and let illegal groups such as gangs control the supply. If it was 'legal' it would still be illegal for children, destroying your 'oh they wouldn't do anything illegal argument' as it would still be illegal. Who said it would be legal to do on the public streets? Big difference from someone who tries it, to a junky Not everyone will rob, the chances are far greater though.. Seriously you have no idea, I can GUARANTEE you I smoked more than him any day of the week. I would say that now would I? Ahh yes there are some, the chances are so much greater with heroin and crack than pot, yet you attack the one 'drug' that pretty much never creates what one would call a 'junky' Ahh but the facts surely say differently http://www.drugwarfacts.org/addictiv.htm http://www.procon.org/AddictChart.htm Pot comes up about as addictive as caffeine Yeah like the guy who has a cup of coffee every morning, or the guy who says 'one more game' it's nothing like being 'addicted to crack, heroin, etc' Yes there are, I wont disagree with that one. Mainly because of the legality of it, parents, etc. Not actual 'addictiveness' So is playing video games and chatting online. What do you base your expert knowledge off of that pot and pot alone caused this guy to lose everything and spend $1,000 a month living in his car just on pot? I also find it somewhat funny and please don't take this wrong. You are so dead set again pot, you claim it did everything, yet you admit to doing a far worse drug heroin. It never crossed your mind heroin did damage?
pot is evil, i don't care what you say if you disagree, you either haven't smoked much yourself, or know of people who have i have seen friends turn into drug fiends because of this plant sure its not physically addictive and comparable to heroin, but it is very psychologically addictive, which is just as harmful speak to any psychologist and ask em what pushed a lot of people over the edge, turned them into schizophrenics, and you'll find it was probably MJ
I think you're right about gang violence and possibly about the likelihood of children abusing it. But maybe you should take a look at this video I saw about how Marijuana, just like harder drugs (including alcohol) can put holes in your brain. It puts holes in the same areas that deal with memory and motivation, which is a big stereotype about pot use. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzP-4N2Qfs0 One of the biggest issues I have with pot use is that most of the people I see get into it become unmotivated. My friends dad who did nothing but smoke pot and live out of his car, his daughter who dropped out of high school and is still living home (now 22), those friends that used to be fun to hang out with until they spent most of their time smoking, all of those things which I told you. I don't condone any drug, including alcohol. I think one of the worst things you can do to your life is become uninterested and unmotivated. You only have one life to live. I remember an anti-drug commercial that really stuck with me. It went something like "My brother smokes pot and nothing bad ever happened to him. He never ODed. He never jumped off a bridge or got in a car accident. He never went to jail.. In fact, he never did much of anything.." and then the kid goes down to his parents basement, and hands his brother, who is in his late 20's, a drink or remote or something.. Honestly, the fact that you don't hit rock bottom smoking pot can be the worst part of all. But, thats just my personal opinion, and some people may think the best way to live their live is by being calm, and simple-minded. I guess if it helps you achieve that goal its OK. This is completely subjective, but one of the worst things that could happen to my life is never accomplishing anything. I'd rather have one of those ridiculous drug-related downfalls you see in the movies like Trainspotting & requiem for a dream than have a life not even worth talking about. But I guess my reasons are too opinion-oriented, and those who truly enjoy pot should be allowed to. So in other words, you win But you should watch that video... I didn't even know it caused so much brain damage until recently... I got depersonalization at 15, after two years of smoking pot heavily. I didn't try heroin until I was 16, and it actually relieved me of my symptoms (albeit temporarily) which was a big selling point for me..
I have smoked a lot. I have friends who smoke a lot. I have had these friends for the better part of a decade(more in some cases). I have never seen ANYTHING to suggest they were anything resembling "fiends". Do a few people go to hard drugs? Yeah. Wanna know the best way to handle that? Make it available in 7-11s. Make it so the only people with access to hard drugs have to seek them out, so they're not confronted with some ex when they're going to get their weed. Keep in mind, that most stoners never turn to hard drugs anyways. Drunks are more likely from what I've seen. As for the schizo comment, yeah. If they were already schizophrenics pot can bring that out. So could any number of pharaceutical drugs, or alcohol. But if you legalized and regulated it, you could easily restrict and diagnose these people before they had problems. Unmotivation is a problem. But that can happen with alcohol as well, and is a nasty stereotype for people that smoke. For me for example, it controls my ADD(which I have a pretty bad case of) better than any pharmaceutical on the market. Including adderall, the lovely terribly addictive amphetamine they were kind enough to prescribe for me when probation prevented me from smoking(I still can't kick adderall, no matter how much I dislike it). I'm actually more productive when I can smoke in moderation. Also, I can understand your not approving of alcohol or other drugs. I'm not asking anyone to approve, just to realize my body and what goes into it is not their business. If I want to sit around eating cheetos and playing crazy taxi, that doesn't effect them. I can almost guarantee I'm providing more service via my internet income than they are, so what's it hurting?
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20030701/heavy-marijuana-use-doesnt-damage-brain Yet study after study that is allowed shows the exact opposite Ahh just like those who play video games. You honestly think it was just the pot and not the person themselves? Then how do you explain the millions of people who smoke pot daily, who work daily without any problem at all? Some people are just plain lazy, to blame it on something else is simply a scape goat. What ever happened to personal responsibility? Ahh so you don't condone caffeine or chocolate either? Both are technically 'drug's only difference is they are legal. Caffeine according to many health professionals is worse for you than pot LOL, seriously LOL. A government propaganda film based mostly off of BS lies is what sticks with you? Those commercials are as bad as reefer madness. How about all the artists, business professionals, doctors, professors, etc, etc that smoke pot? Pot makes you 'simple minded?' Most who smoke are far from 'simple minded' I'm truly not trying to 'win' I'm trying to stop misinformation. I will admit myself as I no longer smoke pot, I would never for instance work out as heavily as I do not if I still smoked pot like I used to. Does that mean I would simply be a vegetable doing nothing? Not at all, during that phase 'before I even started smoking' I was a lazy teenager. Pot did nothing for making me lazy, that was me and my group in the first place. Hell pot actually got me out if anything, it got me out into the world far more than I was before. Honestly one of the biggest reasons I am pro pot is #1 personal responsibility I do not think the government should decide what you or I put in our bodies. #2 Migraine headaches. My mother had them so bad she finally died during an attack of one, crossing the middle lane of highway and hitting a construction vehicle with her car, with my niece in the car. I myself was one of the rare males who got dehabilitating migraines into my early 20's. I was so bad the only thing that could be done was to dope me up on Vicodin and other extremely nasty pain killers. I then did some reading and found out 'pot' according to a professor at Harvard was a great solution to migraines. I started using it again at that time, my migraines vanished extremely quickly. I went from not being able to do anything but be doped up, to being normal again. Neither do all the other health professionals that studied it. One video does not make something a fact. Ahh but everything I have read and you have yet to prove otherwise, you would of had depersonalization before hand, even if it had not come out yet. Further more it has not been proven pot can cause it, only bring it out, plus sure appears to be a personal responsibility issue to me IMHO.
I'm sure we can study-swap all day. But if you're against "propaganda," as you say, then you should at least acknowledge that there is conflicting evidence with your findings. Or else you're no worse than the government which you criticize. Most people play video games. But I don't think its a coincidence that everyone who had their head on their desk in my high school, who dropped out at 16, drew pot leafs on their lockers and notebooks while they should be studying, were pot heads. No one who "just played video games" exhibited that kind of behavior I'm sure you'll find an example of another lazy subset of people, but get used to it. Pot makes a large amount of people lazy. Of course not everyone is like that, just as I'm sure there are honest junkies. But for real, if you smoke as much as you say you do (or did) you've seen them. Hardcore unmotivated, living with their parents until 30, still making bongs out of their moms empty water bottles (and bragging about it), community college drop outs with bad hair cuts. Many of the people I mentioned were different before they started smoking pot, so "just plain lazy" doesn't cut it. A commercial that represented what I have seen in real life is what stuck with me. And artists and businesses professionals have also done meth and crack, remember the mayor of DC? What does that prove anyway? Look at our president. You can be anyone and land a good job. I don't understand what is making you think you are all-knowledgeable in the area of Depersonalization disorder. Are you a medical professional? I was diagnosed when I was 19 with depersonalization and the doctor told me it was the pot that caused it. 1., because I didn't start showing symptoms until I began smoking pot 2., because the symptoms were EXACTLY like my pot symptoms. Everything I experienced smoking pot comes back when I get dissociated. Another reason was because he has seen this before and many people have said the same thing. After getting diagnosed by that doctor, I went to a psychiatrist part-time for my disorder who also agreed with the doctors diagnosis. Don't bother telling me that doctors aren't always right (duh) but I think I have good enough reason to trust their diagnosis than an internet-forum-diagnosis. Anyway, as I said, legalize it. I really don't care. I agree with your point on personal responsibility. But I have seen enough evidence to convince me that pot causes a large number of people to become unmotivated and lazy. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be legalized, its just more job opportunities for me
I never smoked but say it should be legal. at the very least industrial hemp should be legal to grow and make stuff out of.
You're right, and I don't think unmotivation should be a case for keeping it illegal. I was just listing a personal reason that I strongly dislike the drug. Because to me, not doing anything with your life is one of the worst things you can do. But thats a personal opinion, and I wouldn't force anyone to feel the same way I do. But this also correlates with me not liking TV, video games, cell phones (I've never owned any of the aforementioned things). The internet is another issue lol, because I make money off of it, but it pains me to see people wasting hours every day on myspace. I wouldn't ban any of the above things, but I have a strong dislike for them and would love to find a way for people, especially teens, to get more active and have hobbies. This is really where my dislike for marijuana roots from -- the lazy, passive, consumerist American culture that we see today. Pot culture embodies a lot of that. Its not the fault of the drug per se, because a drug can't make you buy a $70 frisbee-bong, 3 year subscription to high times, "legalize it" shirt, and Half-Baked DVD. But it still leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. So I don't care if its legalized, but I will fight tooth and nail to make sure my future kids (and siblings) never touch the shit because I want them to spend every minute out in the real world living life while they still have one.