Socialized Medicine - Who has it - What do you think?

saying "you have no idea" is not a counterargument, actually I could say the same in this case. Anyways, I do think most people agree in paying taxes. I have not conducted a statistically valid poll, but it is my impression.

Unfortunately for you, in a tax-based society (sorry about the word) taxpayers and nontaxpayers are not compatible.

do you need me? catch a dictionary

no, I'm not saying that. I don't see moral hazard in socialised medicine. Quite the opposite.

You have right to one of my eyes but you have the right to use blind-friendly traffic lights, read braille books at the library, have thousands of publicly funded researchers working on understanding vision and how to cure blindness and so on.

 

Which is a progressive tax. It actually argues that the more you work or earn, the less you get per unit of income.

And conversely, it says that the less you produce, you more you get.

Does anyone know why there is a basic or entry level exemption on taxes? Usually below the (sic) poverty level?

It's not because we don't want to tax the poor.

It's because each person has to earn a minimum amount to survive. The amount required for a minimum amount of food, of shelter, of clothing etc.

Taxes are "supposedly" on profit, so you can't count earnings for basic survival as a profit. Hence why taxes are lower at some income levels, sometimes even zero.

That is the big argument against tax in the US by many groups. Income is what you generate in order to survive. Taxing income is essentially a survival tax.

In this regard, a sales tax makes more sense than an income tax, although if we cut out the wars, corruption and waste, most countries could survive on a corporate (profit) tax, a dividend tax and user fees for government services (licences etc).

 

Right, it is your impression, not fact. That is what I wanted to make clear. You arbitrarily decided to build your argument on what you assume many, most or all people think.

My point is, I don't give a sh1t what a majority thinks. The majority is wrong just as often as they are right. I am capable of thinking myself, not outsourcing my decision making to the mobs.

Why?

I want the definition you are using, in context.

You don't see moral hazard in socialized medicine. How do you pay for the health care of those who cannot afford it?

Oh, I see. When it comes to YOU sharing one of your eyes with someone who has a need, suddenly you see alternatives to taking from you and giving to another by coercive force.

Funny how your perspective changes when it costs you something. lol

 

wrong assumption. I do believe that a publicly funded healthcare is good. That most people agree doesn't influence it.

didn't get this

sorry, but this answer is kind of silly.

 

Good, then don't introduce the "most people" part to the discussion. It is irrelevant. We're trying to argue right and wrong, not popular or not.

How do you pay for socialized medicine?

It was a comment, not an answer.

So which eye are you going to give up to a blind man? Left or right?

• Got a testicle to share? Kidney?
• What about your house? Mind if we move some homeless people in?
• Did you eat your lunch yet? I have a right to eat, so what are you making me to eat today?

 

this is how you win a discussion when your arguments are empty. Congrats.

 

Oh c'mon, no running away. My arguments are not empty, your justification for your position is. You refuse to answer...

Tell me how you will pay for socialized medicine. Who will bear the cost?

And yeah, the last part was a little extreme, but the principle is the same. The argument I have read in this thread is that healthcare is a right, and thus, it should be subsidized by those who can afford it.

Hence, I want to know if eating is a right. I want to know if a healthy body is a right. If being born into poverty is an injustice, then surely being born without sight, or without a kidney is also an injustice.

Where do you draw the line on what is and is not a "right"? And where do you draw the line on how much can be taken from others to give everyone "equal" access?

So please, defend your position.

 

They also have an economy that is growing much slower then the US.

 

All people want is for someone else to pay for their health case expenses. I really don't want the government setting health care budgets.

 

No doubt. I challenge the position based on principles, and quickly find out they have none.

A government big enough to decide how and when you get healed, is big enough to decide how and when you will die.

Why are people so afraid of self-determination? How come few people believe they can make the world a better place on their own?

 

Where you are going wrong is comparing health to clothing and transportation. Just for the record, Education is a right Just as health is. The NHS has its faults here and there but I wouldn't change it for the world. Also I doubt anyone here earns enough to be qualified in the 40% tax bracket, it's more like 22% for us normal people!

 

And you my friend, are happy to hand out rights, without justifying how they will be provided.

Please come back when you are capable of making an argument.

 

Through tax ovbiously.

 

And whom will you tax?

 

The people...it's simple. If you live in a democracy, and the majority of people want socialized medicine then you will get it. If you don't want it, you won't get it. I don't see the point in any debate...

 

Which people? Kids? Poor people? Immigrants? Old people? WHO!?!?!

Right. So if people live in a democracy and the majority want anything they will get it, right? Anything?

No, I doubt you do. It doesn't seem that you have thought this through.

Btw, you're almost on bottom with your rep. You might want to slow up on the threads that are pissing off the Nixon gang until you can build up enough rep to have a buffer.

And, if I understand right from your other threads, you may be a Muslim, in which case, I cannot fathom how you are arguing for socialized medicine.

 

I live in a country with socialized medicine, and it is great. Tax payers should pay tax, who else? lol. It's fine if you don't want socialized medicine because all it comes down to is if you think healthcare is a right or not .

 

Of course it is. Free stuff is always great right? You don't know who pays for it, but you get it for free! Yipeee!

Who are the people who make up taxpayers? Do you pay tax? How much?

 

I pay 22% on my annual earnings, which is the same for the majority of the country.

 

We already are paying for health care for the uninsured. We pay through higher costs to health care providers and through taxpayer funded Medicaid. The problem is, this "system" we have still leaves thousands of people without care when they need it.

Sicko excerpt focusing on Canadian system. I love the golfer interview part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X45msp2gSps

Canadian YouTube video endorsing their system
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESRaElMPkrc

US citizens die because they didn't have the medical treatment they needed when they needed it. I believe this is the greatest moral failure of our time. If we can bring democracy to other parts of the world, we should be able to make health care available to all here.

Insurance companies are making billions on our current system. If we cut them out of the picture, the savings would be enough to cover the uninsured.

Criticism of Canada's system or the UK system is a distraction. Just because those systems are not perfect in every way, that doesn't mean it's impossible for the US to design a better system. Studying the other systems should be part of the process we need to go thru to develop our own system, not an excuse to not try.