American Student goes to Palestine to help only to find out the truth

Let's hope we wont find out

 

I don't know anyone personally that is.

I doubt it will ever happen, at least not intentionally!

 

The Palestinians have not learned from this and continue to bring destruction onto themselves. Just as the Germans elected the Nazis, the Palestinians choose Hamas as their goverment.

What are the Europeans going to di during the next cartoon riots? Nuke themselves

 

I'm not understanding how that fits in this conversation other than a general statement about how we should conduct ourselves.

It's very obvious that I and the others here are very concerned about the lives of the innocent and the sympathy not exclusive just to whomever "our own" may be. Bogart is clearly not reveling in the death toll and it's absurd to even think so. I think he's just frustrated that most people here seem to want to believe that if they haven't heard of someone, e.g. El Mufti, then he couldn't have been that important. Hitler is a dude they can identify with because they've seen tons of movies about the bad Nazis too.

Unfortunately the fundamental unfairness against Christians and Jews in the Middle East has existed for centuries and was cultivated by people unknown to 99% of the posters here who only want to believe that the entire problem is contained in the short newscasts they see. It's easy to find this if you want to read it. Here's just one good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi Germany has made great efforts to wipe out the Nazi thinking. Russia and the eastern block countries are still reeling from corruption and the old communist ways but are trying to move toward a more democratic and fair place that exists in Europe and the Americas. But what has changed in the Middle East? Israel is the only democracy and little else has changed.

We are all sympathetic to these human beings, especially the children who don't know any better. But who is going to do something about it to change this attitude that G-d does not want their children to become martyrs and blow up civilians? You? Me? A couple of cute Greenpeace chicks with signature pads? The Palestinians aren't in an easy place. On one side you have Hamas - terrorists who will stop at nothing, even blowing up their own children, to ensure that G-d's will be done and destroy Israel and the infidels. On the other side you have the post-Arafat regime that is rife with corruption that is incomprehensible. The Palestinians screwing their own that few of you want to recognize as a huge part of the problem and because nobody has dragged this through the press like Spitzer with a hooker. From Wikipedia:

Also in 2003, a team of American accountants – hired by Arafat's own finance ministry – began examining Arafat's finances. The team claimed that part of the Palestinian leader's wealth was in a secret portfolio worth close to $1 billion, with investments in companies like a Coca-Cola bottling plant in Ramallah, a Tunisian cell phone company and venture capital funds in the US and the Cayman Islands. The head of the investigation stated that "although the money for the portfolio came from public funds like Palestinian taxes, virtually none of it was used for the Palestinian people; it was all controlled by Arafat. And none of these dealings were made public."[86]

Incredible and disgusting. Yet I haven't ever seen Arafat being hailed as anything other than a hero - at least by anyone whose lived long enough to say otherwise. It was the same way the Irreverend Jesse Jackson became a "leader" - from black leaders who thought that denouncing his treachery would somehow be an even greater blow to the image of people fighting for fairness and equality. Instead, Jackson's transgressions were swept under the carpet.

This leaves us to the easiest thing to do, which is what the Nazi's did -- blame someone else for the poverty and problems. No, it couldn't be your great freedom fighter Yassir Arafat - it's those damn Jews who are keeping you in poverty. The press reports (if they receive it) are more American lies. The Palestinians must be furious, many growing up feeling that they have no chance to enjoy their lives. So if that's the case, their life is worth giving up to blow up the "enemy" who has been a second class citizen anyways for centuries. This attitude has to change. Hamas - a group of ruthless terrorists responsible for initiating every act of self-defense that could result in innocent casualties - must be terminated. Without these things moving forward you have what it is that myself, Bogart, Browntown and others have mentioned -- an uncontrolled rage that takes out its anger on anyone nearby and these children used by Hamas are easy pickins to serve the purpose of destroying Israel... even if it means destroying the very lives of young people in the most heinous fashion.

 

You see a change in Germany and the effort to counter the nazi past. The Palestinians are worse than ever and worship the terror.

The way things are going now, I don't see any peace process working. The ultimate goal of any peace is the destruction of Israel and any Israeli concessions regarding security will lead to more massacres similar to what occured in hebron in 1929

In the end the Palestinian people suffer just as the German people suffered in WW2 and its aftermath. It's a shame that the Palestinianss don't look at what happened to the Germans and try to avoid the same fate.

Things haven't changed for the Palestinains in the last 90 years. The Palestinains went from El Mufti to Ek Mufti's nephew Arafat. Arafat learned all the tricks from El Mufti and who really knows how much these two have stolen from the Palestinains.

 

Hey bogart, can you recommend a few good web resources specifically on the topic of "Palestine"?

 

First of all you are forgetting the fact that Arafat won a Nobel price for peace,and second you are saying that Germans got so many million civilians dead because of Hitler?My friend Hitler's troops didn't go out raping girls and slaughtering civilians over Germany ,Allies did that (mostly Russians) and it's really not human to say that they got it cause they elected Hitler,same as it is not human to say that Palestinians are deserving what they get because some of them have sympathy for Hamas and alike.You have mention Democracy ,but is Democracy a right to choose the way you want to live, a right to freely have sympathy for things you like,or is Democracy a right to pick things "we" consider right,and have opinions "we" consider right?


If you think I'm insensitive to crimes Muslim extremists do,you are very wrong.Muslim extremists in Bosnia killed 102 Croatian children (among other civilian), and a lot of those children were throat cut.But have you ever herd of it?No,because it don't suit anyone,no major power is behind those people and no one is found guilty for those crimes.As a matter of fact,some of the persons guilty of that crimes are now very wealthy crime bosses in Bosnia
and have close contacts with Muslim leaders in those parts,same leaders who are approved by UN witch has protectorate over Bosnia and Herzegowina.
Same leaders,and their heiress who brought these guys in Bosnia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeE9ibRmDPo

This isn't middle east,this is almost middle of Europe

They have come under coverage of muslim charity organization Merhamet ,and Croats were forced to let them in Bosnia over their own territory, because of the pressure of the World,even tho they had suspicions they are infiltrating muslim extremsts.

But who cares ,right?

Well i guess it's now obvious to you that I'm not Islamofashist, it's just hypocrisy that bothers me

 

Nobel Peace prizes are kinda like the Man of the Year award from "Time", they really do not indicate anything of substance or reality on a personal note. They only seek to place the most prolific figures on top based on sheer notoriety.

Arafat is responsible for the majority of the deaths that occurred on both sides during his reign. He was a terrorist leader, was part of the group that murdered Jewish athletes during the Olympics and murdered the King of Jordan.

He was a horrible person, and "peace" was the last thing on his mind at any time.

One thing you forget to mention is that there were three winners that year: "Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, Yitzhak Rabin" , those listed where listed as making a concerted effort towards peace, which frankly, never came to fruition.

Its a fluff award that has literally nothing to do with peace. Hell, Al Gore won the award for creating a fictional movie about the climate.

Outside of the Dali Lama, Mother Teresa, and Gorby, I don't see anyone on that list that qualifies in the last decade, as it concerns "peace".

 

You have the right to make decision, but you must also deal with the consequences of those decisions.

The Arabs decided to invade Israel and murder or enslave everyone there. My sympathy level for them is correspondingly minimal.

By your logic Hitler would be a good guy if he won a Nobel Peace Prize. You should easily see the flaw in that thinking.

 

Well, he too was on the cover of "Time", so what does that say???

 

Here's a good site for research on the topic of Palestine

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate.php

Research on El Mufti/Islam/Nazism/Connection to Nazi Germany

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/
http://christianactionforisrael.org/medigest/may00/arabnazi.html
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php
http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Haj_Amin_El_Husseini.htm
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/recruited.html

 

Respectfully, I feel you might be mistaken about a few things.

(1) Arafat won the peace prize based upon his signing the declaration at Oslo. What happened afterwards was the call by over 250,000 people to rescind it because it was evidently a farce. In fact, the Nobel has become such a political farce that Al Gore was recently awarded it - as if there weren't numerous lesser known but far more deserving candidates available.

(2) Just because some of the Allies raped women doesn't mean the Israeli army did any such thing. They didn't. What you are hearing about are the large exceptions to the rule that would never have happened at all but for the greater evil. Your logic is also being applied to World War II, stating that because there were a number of Allied Troops who committed atrocities it meant Hitler wasn't such a bad guy. Are you kidding me? Hitler began by attempting to wipe out innocent races of people - not just the Jews. Then he invaded surrounding countries. The man was one of the greatest monsters the world has ever seen. That said, no one is excusing the atrocities committed by some of the Allied troops or even an Israeli but it clearly is a tree amongst a huge rainforest and a response to a torment of evil.

No - I think you're pretty respectful about this topic and clearly you've done your reading and willing to come to a forum to talk intelligently with others and make your own conclusions.

To understand just how deep the irrational hate speech has been ridden into the Palestinians by El Mufti and Arafat, you may want to watch an HBO documentary that is fascinating - "To Die In Jerusalem." It features the raw footage of a conversation between the parents of a teenage Palestinians suicide bomber and the mother of a young Israeli girl, the same age. The parents cannot even admit the wrong committed against the innocent girl by their daughter because their attitude is "because we are poor/suffering/miserable then anything goes and the sky is the limit." So everyone is fair game - even you and I - but that's clear injustice but it doesn't matter. In fact, the parents recite this irrational poverty mantra endlessly - yet the Palestinian father is then seen cleaning out his car (looks like a none too shabby Audi.)

Nobody here thinks that there are occasions where even an Israeli may step out of line. I'm sympathetic but it's difficult to vocalize it because the isolated incident is obviously not even close to the point. Hamas gets the people riled up and goes on a PR campaign to tell that world that because of this one incident, it justifies everything. But that isn't the truth is it? Of course not. It's an excuse repeated 10,000 times so you believe it and forget that Hamas' OWN CHARTER calls for the destruction of Israel! THAT is the source of this indomitable hatred that brings about suicide bombings by young Palestinian girls on other young innocent people. El Mufti, Arafat and the rest of Hamas makes sure that in every waking minute of the day these people are told that Israelis must die and that martyrs will be rewarded beyond your wildest dreams for taking out Israelis. How do you meet that mentality when it has been pounded endlessly into many Palestinian children since birth?

 

It's been one straight line of hatred of the Jews in Palestine starting with El Mufti and the Nazis, Arafat and the PLO, to Hamas/Hezbollah.

 

He asked for good web sources, not filthy zionist propaganda.

 

"Filthy zoinist(s)" - ThraXed would have you believe that Hitler was just a misunderstood lad who just wanted a good butterfly collection. Bogart's sources are fine. Unfortunately, ThraXed's hatred of Jews here is a good example of what you'd probably on the Palestinian side of Gaza. Here are a few quotables from ThraXed that might put a wry, incredulous smile on your face.

(About the recent bombing of a Jewish school called "Mercaz Harav" where 7 schoolchildren, aged 15-19, were killed when a Palestinian suicide bomber opened fire on them.)

 

A typical zionist Israeli tactic. When defeated in an argument to do with Israel, bring up Hitler and look for a sympathy vote although it is totally irrelevant to the discussion. Too funny!

 

It is kind of sad to watch you argue here. There are many valid legitimate points on which the Palestinians can argue, yet you make your arguments based on your hatred of Jews and Israel. You insult people and say that the Palestinians are being screwed, but you seem incapable of going deeply into any issue. You have avoided answering any tough question.

All in all, you are a perfect example of why the Palestinians never fail to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. You hate Jews more than you love your own people. Rather than build up the Palestinians you seek to tear Israelis down.

I know that you feel a deep sense of shame for the behavior of some in Islam. But you would be better served arguing against those extremists instead of justifying their actions.

 

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Maybe not a best example,but even some Jews are aware of the Zionism,just another form of Nationalism ,like Germans had National-socialism ,like Italians had Fascism.I'm not here confusing whole state and everyone as Zionist,I'm just saying that there are some individuals who are breeding on hate.As matter of fact i have spoken with a person from Israel (educated one!) and he was trying to claim that Catholics (i believe he used Poland as an example) strongly believe that Jews are the sons of Satan ,and that they have in Churches drawing how Jews are offering lives of Christian children to Jahve.
Of course any normal person would know these are bollocks,but the point is that someone is spreading those believes,and as you know any form of Nationalism breeds on hate and fear of those who are not "our own",same thing goes for Zionism.


And , yes ,bringing up Hitler every time someone tries to point mistakes,flaws or crimes Israel did is obsolete.
People it's 21 century ,Hitler is dead,El Mufti is dead,National-socialism is dead.You should really look whats in front and try to find solutions for problems you have

 

Your comparing cover of "Time" with Nobel price?

 

As per the above parts of this thread, we just quoted your own words and revealed you to be a pathological liar and a blatant Jew hater and, more recently, a homophobe. Instead of taking responsibility for your own words, you change the topic and accuse the Jews of doing exactly the type of PR tactic you're doing here.

You're the one who insisted that Iran's President Ahmadinejad is someone you really like. All of us in the US are very well aware of this guy just as we were all very well aware of his "dear imam", the Ayatollah Khomeini. Ahmadinejad called the Holocaust "a myth" and denounced attempts to normalise relations with Israel, condemning all Muslim leaders who accept the existence of Israel as "acknowledging a surrender and defeat of the Islamic world." You and him would love nothing more than to further Adolf Hitler's plan and wipe the "filthy zionists" off the face of the earth.

There is nothing funny about you and you're frightening. You seem to rationalize the destruction of others who don't conform with your agenda, no matter how innocent they may be. The sources are fine and, like the news reported on every major source, you've claimed them all to be lies and in cahoots with those filthy zionists. You have zero credibility and just a cyberterrorist lurking here. The conversation no longer concerns you. Please take your angry words elsewhere.