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American Student goes to Palestine to help only to find out the truth

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Mia, Dec 21, 2007.

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  1. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #1201
    Since most countries in the world would love to see Israel go down, what do you think "USA not supporting Israel" would cause?
     
    Blogmaster, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  2. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #1202
    Get on with the real world and come out of la la land. Israel leadership will never support a peace as long as they have the upper hand and in fact no one else does that either. Peace is the result of necessity when no one can win. As long as USA is involved, Israel has the upper hand. I know Israel lobby is not unique and by the way that Arab countries are pouring money in American politic, I fully expect that there will be a lot of Arab supporters in US government in 10-15 years but the fact remains that politicans who sell themselves to foreign powers, have to serve their masters and will not be concerned with what is best for their country independent of who that master is. ;)
     
    gworld, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  3. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #1203
    Why is it that most countries in the world love to see Israel go down? :rolleyes:
    First of all, I am not sure if that statement is true but even if we assume it is true then they should look at their own actions and either try to change the world view or buy enough arms, so they can fight the world. In either case, it is not a problem for USA or other countries; it is Israel problem and their responsibility to deal with it. ;)
     
    gworld, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  4. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #1204
    @slinky
    futile attempt to moralize continuation of hostility and suffering when there is no need for that. you do not have enough bonus point for that
    time for peace
     
    pizzaman, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  5. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #1205
    The Islamists will not support peace until they drive out or kill every Jew in Israel.

    Israel is a over one million Jews that fled Islamic lands.
     
    bogart, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  6. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #1206
    Over 20,000 children a day die out of hunger, you don't see USA doing anything to stop it, so why should American care about what happens in Israel even if what you say is the truth which is not. :rolleyes:
    The only reason that USA cares is because some politicans are bought and paid for by Israel lobby and then there is people like you who just follow the "official" party line without thinking what it means, selling their own country without even getting paid for it. ;) :D
     
    gworld, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  7. slinky

    slinky Banned

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    #1207
    How are you still able to rationalize the legitimacy of your own people strapping bombs to their children, telling them that the world to come promises them rewards beyond their wildest dreams, and instructing them to blow up innocent, defenseless Jewish children who presented no threat of immediate danger? You can't and you just keep changing the topic. You fail to understand that normal people will NEVER trust anyone who can do this and then say that they've changed their mind. If you're capable of committing a horror like this then you know what your "potential friends" are always capable of - and have done.
     
    slinky, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  8. slinky

    slinky Banned

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    #1208
    A quick search. "The most prominent is that Iraq is by far the largest recipient of U.S. assistance in FY2004 at $18.44 billion." Egypt recieves almost as much as Israel as does Afghanistan. Source: 2004 CRS Report for Congress

    Now you can simmer down alongside your friend Osama and notify the other Hitler youth about the facts.
     
    slinky, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  9. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #1209
    you are illogical and full of hate there is nothing to discuss with you.
    almost all of the civilized world support the peace process including president of US and Olmert of israel and majority of the people of israel but you think israel should avoid peace. it is you that supports hamas position. not me.
     
    pizzaman, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  10. slinky

    slinky Banned

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    #1210
    Once again - the Palestinian PR tactic perfected by Arafat - it was interesting to read about his plan. You STILL cannot and have not been able to justify why your people are strapping bombs to their children, telling them that the world to come promises them rewards beyond their wildest dreams if they murder innocent Jewish children. It's been asked several times in succession. Instead, you ignore that difficult question to answer and attempt to divert the attention elsewhere - at the person asking a simple question - and claim that the person asking the question doesn't want peace. A common tactic.

    Game, set, match. You don't want to listen, just blame everyone else. Your mission is to bomb Digitalpoint with anti-Israel propaganda, trying convince enough people to believe your lies you can hopefully twist the Israelis into a submission you call "peace." The digital version of Hamas. Game is over and now we'll move on...
     
    slinky, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  11. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #1211
    It has to do with 2,000 years of anti semitism being passed on.
     
    Blogmaster, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  12. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #1212
    That is quite a claim sir, would you mind backing it up with a source? There is a very large Jewish community in Iran and they are living prosperously. There are even Jews in the Iranian parliment. So your claim that Muslims want to kill every Jew is quite silly.

    In the midst of tensions between the U.S and Iran and between Iran and Israel, Iranian-Jewish Americans and Israelis offered money to the remaining Jews in Iran in order to help them relocate to California and/or Israel. In August 2007, the Iranian Jews in Iran, responded by saying they "resent such transparent political enticements."

    Iran's Jewish community is officially recognized as a religious minority group by the government, and, like the Zoroastrians, they are allocated one seat in the Iranian Parliament. Maurice Motamed has been the Jewish MP since 2000, and was re-elected again in 2004. In 2000, former Jewish MP Manuchehr Eliasi estimated that at that time there were still 30,000–35,000 Jews in Iran, other sources put the figure as low as 20,000–25,000.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_in_Iran

    As for Slinky - Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich. I think there can only be one solution for the problem and it is to talk, there can only be peace if Israel allows Arabs to live equally in the region, at the moment they are being treated as second class citizens and this is exaclty the same type of seperation we saw in South Africa, the best thing is to talk and to allow a multi cultral society, a jewish only society would fuse tension and anger amongst the people who were drove out.

    Blogmaster - If you say it is Anti Semitism, what is the cause of that? I can only think of the actions of the ' Jewish state ' which is meant to represent the Jewish people! Zionism is the cause of Anti-Semitism, just like terrorism is the cause of racism towards Arabs.
     
    ThraXed, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  13. slinky

    slinky Banned

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    #1213
    Prosperously? Were you one of the census takers? Please... they don't thrive they survive. Fact is there were over 100,000 Jews there 60 years ago. During that time the population exploded. At present there only roughly 25-30K Jews now - at best.

    Let me ask you this - when the President of your country says he hates you, exactly how much prospering and thriving do you think is going on? Please, get real. Here's just one article from the BBC which speaks volumes - and this has been reported in every major newspaper in the US:

    And with the coming to power of an ultra-conservative like President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, there has been increased concern internationally about the fate of Iranian Jews. Mr Ahmedinejad has repeatedly used rabid anti-Israeli rhetoric - slogans like "wipe Israel off the map" - and most controversially he has questioned the number killed in the Holocaust during World War II.

    I think you are grossly misinformed about a great many things.

    With regard to your claim about Zionism being the cause of antisemitism, it's more lack of knowledge on your part. There is NO democracy in the Middle East save for Israel. Israel is one of the only ways Jews can survive in face of the tremendous anti-Jewish sentiment that unfortunately exists within the Arab Nations. Considering that the Jews were never treated as equals (look up the word "dhimmi" in your same wikipedia and read) and were expelled from these nations long ago, perhaps you ought to look at cause and effect as well. Fact is you're claiming David is bullying Goliath.

    And one more thing - why is it that Israel should allow Arabs freely into their little sliver of land but it doesn't get equal treatment? Why? Because you've just accepted it and the Jewish expulsion happened before your lifetime. And what is funnier is that it's fine to have Muslim and Arab nations but one tiny little place called a Jewish state gets you all up in arms. It's hypocrisy. As you said it, those who have oil and power dictate their own truths and I'm hoping you'll reconsider the hypocrisy in what you're saying and realize the unfortunate reality.
     
    slinky, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  14. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #1214
    Actually, it is quite clear among the speakers of Farsi that Ahmedinejad did not say that Israel should be wiped off the map, he said Zionism should be wiped from the pages of time. When we wanted Communism gone from Russia, we did not want to wipe Russia off the map. Professors all over the world who specialize in the Farsi language have confirmed he did not say that, so your whole argument has no base now? It is common among Zionists to use this false quote from Ahmedinejad because without this quote there is no argument for them!

    He has never said he has hated Jews. I think the Wikipedia article is quite clear when it says Israel offered the Jews to move there and they said No!

    The argument that Jews have "nowhere else to go" is also laughable, the majority of Jews live in North America (more than Israel!). Also, you can not blame anyone for the anti-jewish sentiment among Arab lands but your own selves when you have Rabbai's saying racist things like - "A MILLION ARABS ARE NOT WORTH ONE JEWISH FINGERNAIL.".

    Because you are lying, Jews are welcome in any Middle Eastern country just as Christians are, there is no problem with a Jewish state but not on stolen land (which i'm not going to go into) it must not treat other races as second class citizens.

    What do you have to say about this quote by an Israeli Professor?

    "Jews came and took, by means of uprooting and expulsion, a land that was Arab. We wanted to be a colonialist occupier, and yet to come across as moral at the same time." -- Israeli Professor ILan Pappe
     
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  15. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #1215
    So fucking what? There are more British and German decendants in the U.S. than Jewish ones. So why the fuck don't you let Palestinians take over the UK?
     
    Blogmaster, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  16. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #1216
    Um, because Palestinians have their own land....it's called Palestine. :eek:
     
    ThraXed, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  17. slinky

    slinky Banned

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    #1217
    And even if you were correct, which you aren't, the difference is exactly what? That this means that he's angry with Jewish watchmakers? And the Holocaust comment questioning it's existence - what don't we understand about this guy exactly? If someone comes into the bar and calls you a dumb ni**er, the explanation that he was just trying to point out your below average IQ doesn't exactly spell friendship. You know who is wearing the white hood.

    What's laughable is that you don't acknowledge that these people DONT WANT TO BE EVICTED FROM THEIR OWN HOMES. Why should they? They have lived there for centuries. Yet you have sympathy for the Palestinian people who are claiming the same... and treated far better. Let's take a look at the "thriving" Jewish people in Iran and what it means to live there. From the same BBC article:

    But there are legal problems for Jews in Iran - if one member of a Jewish family converts to Islam he can inherit all the family's property. Jews cannot become army officers and the headmasters of the Jewish schools in Tehran are all Muslim, though there is no law that says this should be so.

    Before you also start talking about fundamental fairness, learn the basics. Understand what a "dhimmi" is and how that affects Jews and Christians in the Middle East.
     
    slinky, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  18. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #1218
    Oh, I'm not, why? Because you said it's not? :rolleyes:. Big deal about the headteacher being a Muslim, at the end of the day these people would rather live in Iran than Israel, now isn't that saying something!
     
    ThraXed, Mar 15, 2008 IP
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  19. slinky

    slinky Banned

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    #1219
    Ahhh... the great lie. Arafat's greatest PR campaign affects ADD inflicted Americans. Aren't Jews "Palestinians" too? Perhaps not in your world. I guess all the tourist attractions were built after the Holocaust to perpetuate the myth. BTW.. it might shock the bejesus out of you to find out when that big mosque behind the famous Western Wall was built...

    Heck, I hope for peace more than anything. But while few take the time to understand the problem to find a good solution, peace is impossible. Just like pizzaman doesn't want to hear it, if you don't take time to understand the question, you can't answer it properly.


    Here is some reading material for you:

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28222

    Palestinian people do not exist

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Posted: July 11, 2002
    1:00 am Eastern
    2008 WorldNetDaily.com

    A provocative headline? It's more than that. It's the truth.

    Truth does not change. Truth is truth. If something was true 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 30 years ago, it is still true today.

    And the truth is that only 30 years ago, there was very little confusion on this issue of Palestine.

    You might remember the late Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir making the bold political statement: "There is no such thing as a Palestinian people."

    The statement has been a source of ridicule and derision by Arab propagandists ever since. They love to talk about Golda Meir's "racism." They love to suggest she was in historical denial. They love to say her statement is patently false ? an intentional lie, a strategic deception.

    What they don't like to talk about, however, are the very similar statements made by Yasser Arafat and his inner circle of political leadership years after Meir had told the truth ? that there is no distinct Palestinian cultural or national identity.

    So, despite the fact that conventional wisdom has now proclaimed that there is such a thing as the Palestinian people, I'm going to raise those uncomfortable quotations made by Arafat and his henchmen when their public-relations guard was down.

    Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:


    The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

    For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.


    That's pretty clear, isn't it? It's even more specific than Golda Meir's statement. It reaffirms what I have written on this subject. And it is hardly the only such statement of its kind. Arafat himself made a very definitive and unequivocal statement along these lines as late as 1993. It demonstrates conclusively that the Palestinian nationhood argument is the real strategic deception ? one geared to set up the destruction of Israel.

    In fact, on the same day Arafat signed the Declaration of Principles on the White House lawn in 1993, he explained his actions on Jordan TV. Here's what he said: "Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."

    No matter how many people convince themselves that the aspirations for Palestinian statehood are genuine and the key to peace in the Middle East, they are still deceiving themselves.

    I've said it before and I will say it again, in the history of the world, Palestine has never existed as a nation. The region known as Palestine was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their ancestral homeland. It was never ruled by Arabs as a separate nation.

    Why now has it become such a critical priority?

    The answer is because of a massive deception campaign and relentless terrorism over 40 years.

    Golda Meir was right. Her statement is validated by the truth of history and by the candid, but not widely circulated, pronouncements of Arafat and his lieutenants.

    Israel and the West must not surrender to terrorism by granting the killers just what they want ? a public relations triumph and a strategic victory. It's not too late to say no to terrorism. It's not too late to say no to another Arab terror state. It's not too late to tell the truth about Palestine.
     
    slinky, Mar 15, 2008 IP
  20. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #1220
    Another simple, it's the truth because I said so. Ah, slinky man, you are drowning! It is no wonder the Jews in Iran would rather stay there. They wouldn't want to live in a state that is currently in the process of ethnic cleansing

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/apr/05/israel

    Listen, this argument is getting pretty hostile which I don't want to happen. I think Jewish people should have a homeland, BUT IT SHOULD NOT be a state like South Africa, all people must be equal so there can be a good mutli cultral society as Jerusalem is very important in Islam, Judaism and Christianity. I think the only time when the people will be happy is when everyone has an equal share of power and they are living equally, not 1 million jews to an arab fingernail.
     
    ThraXed, Mar 15, 2008 IP
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