jewish school in jerusalem hit by terrorists????

And your absurd position here is that if a handful of Palestinians and the Israelis "make peace" then it's all over. You've not even bothered to explain how to right the wrong of the Jewish expulsion from the Arab nations nor any plan on counteracting terrorism that isn't from this handful of people or the recognition of Israel by the Arab Nations.

Here's one tiny quote about Hamas, which literally means "violence" - not democracy. Here's some basic from Wikipedia, which isn't nearly as extreme as what else could be quoted here:

"The Hamas charter states: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad"

Regarding your laughable solution: "After the establishment of Hamas government, Dr Al-Zahar stated his "dreams of hanging a huge map of the world on the wall at my Gaza home which does not show Israel on it...I hope that our dream to have our independent state on all historic Palestine (including Israel). This dream will become real one day. I'm certain of this because there is no place for the state of Israel on this land."

You probably do much better delivering pizzas than you would as a diplomat.

 

trying to find a blame is like the chicken and egg situation.as i showed you with the who owns hamas question
you must stop this argument if you want to have hope for peace.
look at the northern ireland situation. they made peace. you can do it too.
all you say are excuses and excuses are nothing more than reason for failure.

 

No it isn't a chicken and egg situation - stop believing your own propaganda. The Jews were expelled from Arab/Muslim countries long before any issue with the Palestinians arose. There has never been a democracy amongst the Arab nations. Jews/Israelis/Christians are not and will not be afforded the equal treatment you expect for Palestinians. Period.

You don't even bother denying that Hamas clearly states that they have zero intention of ever recognizing Israel. It's not because of a few miles of land. If that was all it was about this would have been long over. All you've done, like others, is keep pointing fingers at everyone else. Before it was the Americans fault. Now it's the Irish - who actually have a place they can call home in Ireland even though there is fighting. The Jews don't and they've been expelled from their homes! When you can establish a democracy in the Arab nations and give the Jews back citizenship then you'll start having peace and finding a place for all these people to live. Until then it's a cornered chicken in a shrinking coop.

This conversation is moot as you just want to keep repeating yourself. Telling us that Hamas are really just a group of neighborhood florists with a chip on their shoulder is laughable. Your comparison of Hamas to regular Palestinians is an insult to the intelligence, even to many Palestinians who live in Israel and understand what peace means.

 

closed minded people give me a headache you can kill each other as long as you want.but dont look for sympathy here since you are so solidly behind the current situation
also what is the preoccupation of you guys for hamas to recognize you?

 

Was it a democracy that liquidated the great yitzal rabin? Like i said there are extremists on both sides that dont want peace. Till this day Rabins wife knows that there was a major plot to take out her husband who would have forged a peace with the palestinians. Your right about arafat and his money and the extremist muslim clerics. Nobody said it would be easy but what will you do with the peiople on both sides who want peace? Just give up on them. Too many peoples lives on both sides at stake for this to happen. Trust me i know all about the history of the plo as my parents came from lebanon and are christians. The plo setup check points during the height of the civil war and would take people who were christians or affiliated with the shiite's and shoot them. They were brutal no question about it, but that aside there are many palestinians that want peace but they are the ones not holding the guns, and their central government is a joke with no strong army. This is a mess that will never be solved by war.
Gandhi and doctor martin luther king junior achieved what most people in history could never have achieved with war and that is great change.

We must never forget those people. What is truely find disgusting is when certain palestinians would be celebrating in teh streets and passing out candy to celebrate the deaths of those students in the school. No matter what their excuses how can any normal human being rejoice at the deaths of any human being. Plus the arab mentality has to change. the native americans are now living in peace even though they clearly have less then 1% of the land they started out with. The palestinians are being offered much more than that by isreal. Why not make a concession with isreal and work towards accepting it and making peace with them?

 

Actually Iran would have been a democracy and was on its way there with mossadegh until the greddy oil companies in conjunction with the british and american intelligence people that were high up in these oil companies(such as standard oil) that help to destroy democracy in iran through operation ajax, which installed the puppet non elected shah and helped fund and train his brutal secret police the savak. The shah kept teh tradition of supplying these oil companies with super cheap oil for pennies on the dollar while supressing the will of the people there. the same thing happened with some of the people in iraq that wanted peace. You think these dictators had the strength to get up their in power on their own?
There were many common people in the middle east that want peace but they were all used and abused for the greed of the weathly elite.
The common masses of all countries need to see this and learn to value and preserve the uniqueness of all human life.

 

Because at the most basic level, if Hamas doesn't recognize Israel neither do the Palestinians. It's clear you don't know what's going on.

 

So obviously hamas is the real representative of Palestinian people. If israel succeeds to buy the Hamas leadership then new organisation will come up since the problems are not solved and people will still be dissatisfied.

Israel doesn't want peace because they don't have to, why should they? They know, they can pay couple of million dollars to American politicans and in return they can get billions of dollars and use U.S. military for free.
In the mean time they can shop around for the next "moderate" palestinian leader and talk about "peace" while they know very well that there will be no peace.
The day that Americans citizens wake up and learn that they are getting scr*wed royally and leave the middle east, that will be the day that Israel will get serious about peace.

 

Considering that the Hamas is the elected leadership and their reason for existence is to destroy Israel, then even an idiot could see that the Israelis have a problem with them in power. Try to convince someone else to leave their kids with Jeffrey Dahmer since he now has a really good job at the 7-11.

Eh... the US military has been in Iraq, not in Lebanon. Unlike yourself, the Jews and Israelis would definitely rather have their children alive and not have to post armed guards in front of every store, school and general area of commerce for fear of being blown up by suicide bombers. Sure they want peace but, as usual, you're all complaints providing no solutions as to how to accomplish this. You must be confusing Israel with Dubai. The money in Israel goes into protecting life, not into golf courses and luxury hotels. By the way, that's your gas money funding them...

You've been getting screwed royally for years by OPEC at the gas pump and and your own president.Putting your hands over your ears and eyes to what goes on around you doesn't prevent the problems. The fact that you have truly no concern for innocent children being blown up and more for alleged tax dollars indicates that, with friends like you, there is absolutely no need for enemies. The proof is in your words... and at the pump. $4 a gallon here and rising! Enough with you, have better things to do than argue with a David Duke University graduate...

 

So if you are not ready to talk to elected leaders of palestinian people, who are you willing to discuss peace with? The next "moderate leader" that can be bought in price is right show?

Nobody said Americans were in Lebanon but USA provided your country with free atomic bombs and is paying billions to support your war effort and if one day the situation get really bad, the American Navy will be present to "meditate" a peace if Israel is losing. If you have a straight flash in a poker, you don't call or draw, you will raise the stakes which is exactly the position Israel is in. they don't want peace, why should they?
I told you my solution many times, USA should stop it's involvement in this problem and the next day, Israel will be ready to discuss peace seriously.

At least USA is getting something for the money that they are paying to Arab countries which is oil, what is it that America and American tax payers are getting for supporting Israel?
I asked you and anybody else who defends this situation, to do a plus and minus analys and show why USA should defend Israel and how it benefits America and American tax payers but all of you refused to do so. Is it because there is no plus side and only negatives? You can say that Israel is USA's friend, but a friend who only has her hand in your pocket and is using you, is not a real friend, is it?

 

gworld

Your pure hatred of America and Israel is obvious. Your opinions are dishonest and irrational.

My solace is that your view, the Hamas view, the terrorist view, is roundly rejected by nearly every civilized person. And more importantly, it is rejected by the countries and people who have influence.

I will know that every time America helps Israel you will cringe a little.

 

Nice post gworld.

Remember that if you criticise the USA or Israel then you hate them, in the crazy crazy mind of browntwn that is.

 

The Palestians need to stop firing rockets and sending suicide bombers against Israel if they truly want peace.

On the other hand their governments only reason for existance is for the destruction of Israel ...

 

OK gworld, you've made your point that you're ticked off that the US provides money to certain countries which it gets back value in ways which you don't agree or might not be readily understandable to you. If you can't immediately touch the benefit on your farm then it simply doesn't exist. And you're so wrapped up in the monetary issue that the murder of innocent children is now justified. You've made your point now move on.

AGS, nobody is claiming that having a discussion and making critical comments is wrong. We're talking about one issue - how sending suicide bombers into civilian areas to murder innocent children who have nothing to do with any conflict is completely out of the bounds of human decency. Heck, we're just as concerned that the hatred that exists in some of these groups (it's not new) is enough to justify that they should strap bombs to their own children! The constant barrage of comments about economic aid are non-sequitir and simply a way to bombard this discussion with his anti-Israel rhetoric.

The point that was made here before is that there isn't just one voice for the Palestinian people and that there a number of different variables than just the "land snatch" myth that was perpetuated by Arafat in his PR campaign. You've got the Jews being expelled from Arab lands many years earlier and with nowhere to go but Israel. Solving the problem requires the assistance of those who created much of the problem in the first place - the other Arab nations - but they'd rather sweep what they did to the Jews under the rug and keep the Palestinians in someone else's back yard. Many Jews and Palestinians are aware of this problem and want to find a peaceful solution. But there are many Arab Muslims who don't ever want the peace process to move forward - the clerics preaching accolades for killing Jews and we aren't even talking about Palestinians. It's also centuries old but most don't realize that the Arab countries is the furthest thing from America they can imagine (including Dubai.) They continue to grow in numbers and be financed and who recruit poor Arab pawns, convincing them to blow themselves up "in the name of the Jihad." How is any Israeli supposed to know whether the Palestinian he invites into his yard is truly friend or a terrorist? It's a problem that plagues both Jews and Palestinians. But considering this comes from the Arab side, it's unfortunately something the Palestinians have to deal with and a group brave enough to take on people who are willing to kill their own children to win whatever it is they want. Do you think these Palestinians aren't afraid for their lives given the ruthlessness extant within their own culture? I don't blame them for being frightened.

And what we don't need is a Jew hater like gworld here to keep reminding us that the suicide bombing of innocent children is practically justified since he's ticked off about a penny in his pocket and how government spends his money. He's made his point, no need to keep repeating it here.

 

I think one day you should make up your mind if you want to be American or Israeli. Your views as Isreali is patriotic but as an American is treason. May be you just live in California but in reality, you are just part of Israeli 5th column.

I am still waiting for a plus, minus analyz of defending Israel for USA but nobody wants to do it. It is funny, can`t you even find one plus point?

 

Sorry to disappoint you. I am an American. Never been to Israel. Never belonged to any church or temple or mosque.

My only allegiance is to my country and my family.

 

Isn't this what all 5th column spies trained to say?

Tell us, how does U.S. supporting Israel benefits "your" country?

 

it is clear that i do have a better understanding of the situation than you
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7286945.stm
it seems that once you stop your chicken and egg there is room for understanding and finding a solution
it is time that the israeli doves to step up and defeat the ultra right settlers and other opposition to negotiations.
you need to get passed your history to make peace.
i demand again that they stop their childish behaviour and negotiate as partners.this is the only way.

 

we must push to defeat them.
the problem is that the doves are silent.
i think there is an understanding between all parties as to what the end result is. but they have to get their people ready for peace.
as you can see based on this forum it is not that easy.