Are you opposed to going to hell for eternity?

Awesome find Rebecca, Just dont post this to any of the evangelical or extremist christian forum. Now ur starting to see the god that i see

 

People make their own heaven or hell. No two people have the exact same idea of a god, or of a heaven or a hell. For those of us who don't buy into any particular religion or it's MAN-MADE dogma and beliefs, heaven or hell is what you find right here on earth. And, it's that personal held view and belief that you have in your heart and mind when your body dies that decides what sort of life you'll go on to next. So there is free will involved. If you believe your going to end up in some sort of hell, then perhaps you'll end up in a miserable existence in some war-torn country starving or dying of some horrid disease. It all depends on what YOUR personal view is on such things. What's your idea of heaven? Or of hell? ALL religion, no matter what it is called, is a man-made ideology that is designed to dominate, control, and subject people to the will of some loony, power-crazed, bugger. My advice is get as far away from religious B.S. as possible and find a spiritual path that helps you grow as a intelligent being instead of being one of the millions of sheeple following the lies of power crazed man-made dogma.

 

Your post just showed me you may be hurting from past experiences with religious organizations. I belong to one organization and in no way is their a loony power-crazed leader. If there was such a person, that person would be weeded out fairly quickly and trust me, some have experienced this. There is no room in our organization for such domination or dictatorship. Just think of the "wheat and weeds" illustration Jesus used in the Bible. This illustration signifies exactly what you are talking about. What Jesus is also saying that these ones will identify themselves when the time comes for identification.

My advice to you is to do some further research prior to making grandiose inaccurate statements whilst at the same time tarring everyone with the same brush.

Col

 

Hey SEO! Actually, while I have had a couple of bad experiences with some religious folks, I do not have any "hurt" about it. That was a LONG time ago. My observations stem from looking at the religious world on a broad scale. I am glad that you seemed to have found an organization that works for you. Glad that who ever runs it doesn't seemed to be just doing it to "shear the flock" for his own personal gain. Most of them do. Frankly, I do not believe that the Jesus of the bible was real, but a character dreamed up by the Roman founders of christianity who, perhaps, was based on a REAL person or historical figure that was someone who spoke out against the Roman rule of the time and then Rome killed him to shut him up. But found amazing potential with this character to found a religion that would be useful in controlling the populace and conferred on to this person a 'godhood' to make their story sound good. After all, the Roman rulers said they were gods. Nor do I believe that a book that has been rewritten, edited, and translated from other, much older, texts that were written by fallible HUMANS, to be the infallible word of any god. Sorry. While I am not an atheist, agnostic at best, I am a scholar of history and have studied the numerous religions that have sprung up over the history of humanity. They all come and go and have their gods, their leaders, and so on. I would suggest you study the history of xianity, where it was founded, and how it was founded by Constantine and the Council of Nice. As well as checking out the MUCH older cultures from where most of the stories in that book came from. Just a thought.

 

Thanks. I have studied about Constantine and the Council of Nicea, Eusebius Pamphili, Diocletian, Origen, the Nicene Creed and many others and things from that era. It takes quite a lot of wider reading to get your head around these situations. I am not one for putting my head in the sand.

There's no need to be sorry for your disbelief in God and/or Jesus. I was an atheist for 30 years so I know where you are coming from. However, I pulled my head out of the sand and wised up to find out what the Bible really teaches. My main goal now is to invite others to find out what I learned about God, Jesus and the Bible.

Col

 

Fair enough. I never said I didn't believe in a supreme life force....I just don't believe in the god of any particular religion. I loathe organized religion. I've seen it kill the spirit and soul of many people...beat them down and break them. Where's the love in that? Even if the christian god did exist, I'd have issues with him/her/it. Anything I've ever read about him/her/it definitely seemed to me to be a vicious, blood-thirsty, power crazed loony dude. Why would anyone want to worship such a being?

 

Thats your opinion and your opinion only. It doesnt make it fact. You believe that man makes heaven and hell, i believe that god the creator of the universe made them. I have grown up in a religious family all my life and for me it was the greatest blessing and gift i could ever recieve from my 2 parents. Just maybe, these lies..... are true????

 

Well, I am glad you think of your upbringing as a blessing...a lot of people would not have the same OPINION on that score. Your religious views are merely your opinion as well. Just because you believe them does not make them necessarily true...any more than my opinion makes what I believe about organized religions and the ideas of what they view as god necessarily true. There is no real proof or evidence for the existence of the christian god anymore than there is proof for the existence of the muslim god, the hindu gods, and etc. It's ALL human conjecture and opinions. Just because people believe in some religious dogma doesn't mean that it's factual, or true, either. Facts can be proven. Truth is an entirely different creature...and a damned elusive one at that. Truth is deceptive, and is rarely what it seems. Facts are facts...as cold, hard, and unchangeable as mathematics. You have no physical FACTUAL evidence to back up your opinion, so why get so pissy and dis mine? I said, that PEOPLE make their OWN heaven or hell...not that man made YOUR personal idea of heaven or hell. Humans make their own heaven or hell right here on earth. Just look around pong.

 

True. Many have painted God according to their experiences with how Man has revered HIM and what they have done in HIS name. Because of this I don't blame anyone for thinking these things about God. However, if those same people knew the truth about God those thoughts would never even enter their minds.

 

My ideas come from reading the christian bible, particularly the old testament, and looking at history at how the christian religion was as brutal and blood thirsty in it zeal to force conversion on people as islam still is today. So, any painting has already been done by plenty of others and I have had no need to add to it. No other creature in this world has ever committed the crimes that humanity has and had the gall to call it all ethical and moral because some self-centered god told them to do it. In my opinion...the only god that exists...exists inside the psyche and heart of all living things and humanity has twisted that divine nature to suit itself and it's selfish desires. I've noticed most people view 'god' as they view themselves. But divinity is all things... kind and cruel, good and evil, light and dark, pure and corrupt...and it's how we view that divine nature inherent in all things as to what we see and experience. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Those things that happened in history (most likely referring to something like "The Crusades") were terrible things that man did in God's name. However, doing things in God's name does no way imply that this is what God purposed, approved or wanted. These things are man's doing and man will be responsible and liable for those things.

This is what I mean when I referred to painted pictures of God. Yes, man twists things for his own desires and yes men view God as they view themselves. But they would be wrong and what also is wrong is how you describe divinity. Especially when referring to God. To say God is cruel is saying you do not really understand his purposes. I have met many people who thought this way. Only until they actually learned the truth about God did they turn their thinking around. Such comments I have heard are "I never knew that about God" and "so this is not God's doing? All these wicked things we see?"

People learn these things from studying. I learned as well. I didn't want to bring children into this world because of what a miserable system and society this world is. However, things changed when I learned the truth of the matter.

So, don't fully shut God out yet until you have explored all avenues. From what you have said so far, you have a lot to learn. Please don't be offended by this. I mean this in an encouraging way to lighten up the hope. Even though it may seem to be in the distance for you.

Regards,

Col

 

Don't judge Religion by people.

If we judged our beliefs by people who would want to be an athiest like hitler.

I believe in GOD because I practise the power shown in the Bible and have seen divine healing in the name of JESUS CHRIST.

 

Hitler was a Christian.

 

Actually, I was reading through Romans yesterday, and by the time i got to that part, I had remembered what the context is of the whole book. It's actually kind of comical--He points out so many things that you have to do in order to be perfect according to the Jewish law, and even when it is summed up as "love thy neighbor as thyself." we can't even possibly fulfill that law perfectly!

So, when I get to that part, keeping in context, all I see from it is another small part of the point he is making to the Jewish Pharisees who are trying to judge the gentiles--showing that even the gentiles are better then them because they do not use the law to judge others, BUT if you think about it, "ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.". and "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." and Romans 1:17 "For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."" And John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

So that does not exlude them from needing know about and believe in the sacrifice that Jesus (Not just a man, but God also) made, and have faith that His sacrifice alone is enough to save them, apart from any good deed or offering of their own.

Every time we start thinking about works or even the content of our heart getting us into heaven, we are insulting that sacrifice He made. I do this sometimes--start worrying that I'm not being perfect enough and maybe I'm not really saved, but I always come back around and remember that it's impossible for me to do anything to get myself into heaven in the first place. Then suddenly I remember that it is faith that saved me.

Again though--Anything is possible with God, and I can't and don't want to rule out the hope that God plants that faith in the unborn or the severely mentally handicapped who can't process any form of input, and hopefully even people who are trapped in some religion but still see the truth in their heart. Because afterall, "Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness." and Christ had not yet died.

Did I just talk myself in a circle lol? Theology gets so confusing when you stray from the core message.

I didn't get to those yesterday since Romans is fairly long, but I'm looking forward to studying them. Thanks.

 

"No one comes through the father but through me" Well that can mean many things and i think jesus left it that way for a reason. He didnt say through me on earth and he didnt say we must know him though other peoples words or through the bible. Whenever you do a kind act for someone , jesus is there, whenever you feed the hungry your feeding jesus, when you find shelter for the homeless your finding shelter for jesus and when you are there in times of pain for family ,friend or a stranger on the streets you are there for jesus, so there are many ways to know jesus.
Now as a christian i know that knowing jesus comes from knowing your heart, but remember also that the heart can be decieved easily by satan and reading the bible and going to church makes it easier to resist and humble urself by asking for forgiveness.
This is one thread on dp that i really like.
keep it going folks

 

I still think you are focusing on "works" like feeding the hungry. Those are good and even make you feel better about yourself, but it's impossible to know God and gain salvation through doing good works. That is the main problem that the Bible seems to keep trying to pound into our heads, but we keep asking "what do we have to do?" and the answer is too simple and free for us to comprehend (because our nature is to assume that nothing is free) until God gives us the ability to see it. Once you do realize that all you have to do is believe that Christ's sacrifice really did what He said, it's amazing how everything else falls into place, but when we start forgetting that, or if we never grasp it, we start doing good works out of a desire to be a "good" person and then start thinking of others as less good then us, then we become like the Pharisees and get trapped by the religious laws that we impose on ourselves when we no longer have to.

What I'm starting to realize is that throughout the Bible it was the same problem trying to convince everyone how simple and free the gift is, so they had to go through all the lessons and experience it for themselves, except for those few that were so hungry for the spiritual food that they took it without question. It was the upright, proud, and rich that had such a hard time humbling themselves to recieve a gift that only meant they had to give up their love of the world, admit to themselves and god that they weren't perfect, and have faith that He loves them unconditionally. And since even that is impossible for us to do on our own, only His Grace can come in and give it to us.

The reason that Jesus was so controversial is because it sounded to the authorities like He was telling everyone to become criminals. And in a way He was.