What happened?

It doesn't seem like you understood my post. Go back and read it again if you have the time. Does it really seem that I am advocating that writing is easy work? On the contrary, what I am saying is that employers and novice employees that call themselves writers are devaluing this industry because of cheap and easy access to a computer.

Also, I find it hard to believe that people are making a satisfactory living writing penny or two pennies a word. Even if you write 2 articles at 300 words each every hour at 2 cents you still only make $12. Minus paypal fees and your overhead and let's say it's $11.50. If you write consistently like that for 40 hours a week you make $1840 a month. Depending how much you set aside a portion for taxes you bring home 50-80% of that figure. And that's if you are writing non-stop 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and have secured, guaranteed employment (a rarity in this industry as nearly all of us write for multiple employers and need to spend time in our day soliciting for new jobs.) Maybe $1840 will carry you through if you are a single person with low overhead but if you have family members that you support, live in a city or want to save for a vacation, a home or other large purchase, that wage doesn't cut it.

I'm here for a bunch of reasons, to learn more about the industry, get involved in some of the political and entertainment discussions and occasionally I look for work in the BST forum. If you are seriously suggesting that because I choose to be critical of the writing employment system on DP that I should go beg for change outside Wal-mart, then you have fallen into the first trap that any good writer can lay: to make the reader react to the words. Thank you for proving that it can still be done.

I disagree. You can choose to take pride that you have spent 8 hours researching and producing 20 300 word articles about skin condition for a MFA website but if in the end you are making less than you would from a minimum wage job in your hometown, do you really think that you are choosing to spend your working time effectively? To me you can choose to write for three reasons, for art, for personal satisfaction or for work. If a writer is choosing to work just to earn income then you should be working for the top dollar you can make. If you don't value your time why should a stranger?

In the end it doesn't matter because everyone will continue to choose what they want to do. If you like doing what you do, simply continue doing it.

 

I think you both make really good points (chrissie and chant)... I am here because I love to write, granted SEO and content is not my dream but it does pay the bills (not on a penny a word though lol) but it does help. It contributes to the household... it gives the kids an allowance and maybe a night out for me and the hubby. I guess you could say I am writing for personal satisfaction and work (the personal satisfaction part is the blogging that I enjoy doing)... and like chant suggested, I look at the word available where I live (not a lot of it) so I think outside the box. When I tell people in my community and kids' school what I do, they're usually impressed because in a blue-collar farming community like ours, there aren't many people doing what I am doing. (Which reminds me, I need to place an ad for my services in the paper).

But that isn't my point, if we weren't looking to create an income none of us would be here... likewise some of the webmasters we run across wouldn't be here if they weren't looking for content. The struggle is finding the medium so that they get what they want, and we aren't undercutting ourselves greatly.

 

That's funny - I make more than enough to pay the bills and am proud to be a WAHM. Now, I'm sure you didn't mean to be insulting, but I should also throw in that many of my best clients are other WAHMs. Ironically, many webmasters could be slated WAHMs or WAHDs, but they don't seem to be on the receiving end of many insults. Hmmm...

As far as the "writing" jobs go, worry about your own work - not that of others. There are clients seeking all levels of writing ability. Even some of the most well-known writers/copywriters on the board use less skilled writers for various purposes. If I make $80-$100 an hour, but my husband needs a bunch of keyword jammed descriptions for a dating site, he knows better than to ask me to do it.

Focus on honing your own niche and skills. Build a client base and constantly network. Leave the penny writers for the penny projects. They don't have to be your competition unless you feel like throwing yourself in with the lot.

As far as I'm concerned, forums are a lot like politics. The most vocal and prominent in the public eye are usually the most underrepresented on voting day. A few make quite a ruckus. The rest of us just go on about our business quietly transacting business and making money.

There are a lot of people offering cheap services and a lot of people take them up on it. Complain if you want, but they won't go away and there will always be someone willing to do it cheaper (and with greater enthusiasm.) If you don't like the situation, don't be part of it. Find a way to differentiate yourself and find clients that value what you do - leave the rest to do whatever it is that they do.

Rebecca

 

Insults? You know very well what I am talking about unless you forgot about the discussion about low rate WAHMs not too long ago on this forum that you participated in: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=644736&highlight=wahm

Why do you feel the need to roll your eyes because I say that WAHMs are driving down the rates for writers? Are you insinuating that because I mention that WAHMs are part of this problem that I have something against all forms of profession for stay at home mothers? Do you really need for me to state an exception that I only mean WAHMs that will value their services for peanuts? If you need such a clarification then there it is although I thought it was plainly obvious that this thread was about writers that accept low payments. And why the need to roll your eyes? I'm sure that you don't mean to be patronizing but you are coming across like it.

You even said in a post on that earlier discussion "Being a WAHM does have a bad rep." There are simply too many WAHMs willing to be paid peanuts, who are uneducated about how to properly write and who also, intentionally or unintentionally, do not give the proper respect for the writing profession that they would for other working professions. As I said earlier, a lot of people seem to be under the assumption that because you possess a keyboard and internet access you too can make money from being a writer. I for one don't see the harm at defending the writing profession from those that are novices, who haven't spent the money or time on their education and that think it's OK to undercut a working writer because they want to make a couple of bucks on the side.

And on a larger issue than this, simply stating that you're a WAHM doesn't entitle you to extra empathy either. Work at home dads deserve it too and so do the moms and dads that DON'T get to spend the time with their children every day because they have to go out of the home to earn a living so really, it's ALL parents that deserve sympathy these days. Generally speaking I have heard the complaint and issue a lot that people don't know how hard it is for a stay at home mom or dad. Well, some parents don't get the opportunity to see their kids 40 hours a week because they have to earn the majority of the income. They have lousy jobs that have them working the night shift or on weekends, further taking away the time that they can spend with their children if they are in school. My dad was one of those people and it killed him to have to do it but he did it to make sure that bread was on my table.

There has been a controversial theory that I've read that the rise of the female workforce has done serious damage to the family unit. There are more people in the workforce and less people staying at home to raise their kids. The cost of living has exploded across the past 50 years and the rise in wages has not kept up to speed. The undercutting of job sectors, outsourcing and the constant drive to try and pay the least amount for a job has contributed to a western society that is more stressed, more in debt and more fractured as family units than ever before. I'm not saying that women should not be given equal pay or respect as a man because they always should have, but what I am saying is that it should have been equally as important to make sure that the cost of living didn't spiral out of control for moms and dads trying to have careers and raise their children. Where is the social movement that is putting the breaks on that or was all that mattered just getting women equal footing in the workplace?

If the trend continues that employers demand experienced people of a high caliber working for peanuts then how can people afford to spend years getting a higher education to attain a degree? How can they afford starting a family? You see people getting married later in life now and beginning families in their 30s when a generation ago it was in their 20s. I believe that this is a direct correlation to the issues we are talking about in this thread and it's not a good thing.

Please don't try and have an emotional reaction when someone is critical of an aspect of the WAHM group. I think that it is fair to say that WAHMs, students and people in emerging countries are the major factors in low paying writing jobs flourishing. That doesn't mean for one moment that I am saying that every person in one of those groups is guilty of this but it can mean that there is a trend for these groups to be taking these sorts of jobs. I am not a stat taker, I read what is posted on here and elsewhere and that is how I have come to believe this.

 

My Goodness Chant!

I didn't mean to offend you - my comment was tongue in cheek; hence the rolled eyes. I guess I should have picked another emoticon. Sorry about that!

I understand perfectly what you are saying, I was just calling you out on stereotyping, which the original comment was. You've modified that now with your response, "That doesn't mean for one moment that I am saying that every person in one of those groups is guilty of this but it can mean that there is a trend for these groups to be taking these sorts of jobs."

You didn't have to explain that you meant only SOME individuals in your statement for me to understand your point. But then I could say something like "Catholic school girls are loose." Sure I meant only a few in a movie I saw once, but I'd be willing to bet there would be a lot of Catholics who'd like a word with me. If that's patronizing, I guess that's just my way.

I've actually got a very thick skin and didn't have an "emotional reaction" other than mild irritation that I (and many others) were lumped into a broad, negative stereotype. I'm sure others on these boards have the same feeling when we discuss third world countries or non-native speakers. I just felt like sharing that ilk this time. I tend to bristle when stereotypes are thrown around without support. Thank you for supporting your statement with your response. You're right - there are many WAHMs and many others who write for pennies.

I guess I would have liked your original statement better if you'd said:

"This is the realm of WAHMs who don't know any better, students looking for extra paypal cash or people that live in countries where the standard cost of living (and judging from the complaints that I have read, usually of quality) is pretty low."

That way ALL WAHMs don't come out sounding dumber than the students looking for cash. Especially since those WAHMs most likely raised the students.

The other discussion you referenced was about a section of a forum dedicated to WAHMs who write articles. The writers in question obviously didn't know any better - and refused to listen to those trying to help them. I think that is a small group, not even a majority of writers who happen to work at home.

Anywho, I totally agree with you about parents needing to be home as much as possible, especially with changing conditions. This is the one and only year I'll be working at home in the foreseeable future. I teach, and I love teaching, so I'll be heading back to the classroom full-time next year even though I could probably swing a few more years at home. The stress of two fluctuating incomes just isn't worth it. Don't worry - I know all about working full-time and parenting. I've done it for years.

Rebecca

 

The age old adage of 'you get what you pay for' is very evident in copyrighting, there is also another one buyers should familiarize themselves with 'buyer beware'.

 

Ouch... that hurt

 

Watch out! Stereotypes are running rampart! (Climbing off my soapbox for the evening...)

 

Excellently put. Love this. We determine our own destiny. It's so true. Thanks!