For instance I bet a skilled American such as Lodeck could make a living on there, taking a premium, and then sublet it to firms in India and Pakistan etc, and use his skills to check they were doing it right? Would that work tell me? I bet some clever people are already doing that...
The problem is that doing the work to others is ok, but usually bid are sooo low on that sites that it can only suit 1 person - coder. So this will cut out any middle man.
do you need to write all the requirements in the project description? Or can you give them the details in private? (I don't want ppl copying my ideas) Also, if you (the buyer) have 0 rating, and will not pay a penny until project is 100% complete, will you get a lot of bids? Lastly, are non american programmers/coders/designers very risky? I would like to work with USA, but due to money I will not be able to afford it most likely.
"do you need to write all the requirements in the project description?" No, if u dont want to, then dont write anything. u can write few things and then write "More info via PM" or anything like this "Or can you give them the details in private?" Yes, via PM(private message) "Also, if you (the buyer) have 0 rating, and will not pay a penny until project is 100% complete, will you get a lot of bids? " u will still get bids, but from people with low, bad, or no rating and if u r lucky, u can also get bids from someone with good rating, bz some times people need money, and they dont have any work, so they bid on such projects also, if u use escrow, which u can describe in project description like this "will put funds in escrow", then yes, everyone will bid on ur project, even if u have no rating "Lastly, are non american programmers/coders/designers very risky? I would like to work with USA, but due to money I will not be able to afford it most likely" u will get bids from people all around the world. u can choose anyone. main thing is that u talk to bidders via PM, try to find the person who u think talks like a mature and professional, and not just someone who want ur money. there r good programmers/coders/designers in China, India, Pakistan etc all u need to do is to find the right person
But it is the provider that enters the bid. No one tells them what to bid. People will always pay more for quality. Problem seems that freelancer is full of victims. The bidders who get such a mixed service The providers who don't earn enough from doing it
Right. Man I have very high ratings and track record of 4.5 years (don't want to directly advertise so it's enough). Some clients are slow with new orders so looked for new one. Guess what ? Placed about 15-20 bids in past 10 days. Get 1-3 jobs (still in progress), other jobs simply opened. Bids placed, buyers don't choose anyone. It's not me being bad, they simply don't choose anyone and site don't get any money. Just pain in the ass. Few years ago it was better. Old times it was 5-7 (or even more) bids were win by me/others. 90% of projects are unreal to finish even by simply doing them for close to free. And that is real problem considering they charge coders for advertising (taking money from their earnings). "People will always pay more for quality." Not on freelance sites, man. Believe me. VERY RARE cases. And that's bad. So own website is the real deal, even if you are VERY established on that sites. Don't put all eggs in 1 basket works there as well.
It is actually quite difficult I agree. I know how I want the site to work. I know very little about webdesign. So am I right in saying that code is the most important bit, and I could get it built, and then get somone to do the graphics after? And to pay somone else to check the code after it is done in case of any "time bombs" from poision coders etc. When someone has done this code does it actually work so I could check that I can add and remove e.g vehicles in my admin section?
I think that communication is the major drawback to freelancer. Western people who need to pay western bils are competing against those who reside in countires with lower costs of living, which naturally can undercut This is always a problem of outsourcing. Normally what happens here is for the more talented from the non western countries to increase their price, and quality as happens in most industries to fill the divide. Only on freelancer something has gone wrong. It has ended up as a discount store. The people on there are capable of far better work, but need to rush it since the jobs pay too little. There is an opening for a new freelancer website, that structures the project in greater detail, and allows the bidders and buyers to chat live. Prices would be higher, but so would quality. The present getafreelancer is a great idea but the site lacks imagination. I can think of a hundred ways it could be improoved, for the advantage of both parties. Open Market.
You've maid very good points, if it's not a time problem for you , you can make a suggestion for that to them. Chances they will hear the buyer are far more than the coder.
Just not sure why are you stuck with getafreelancer.com? There are many other simmilar sites which I think are better: e.g.: elance.com (they have per month fee for coders, so only seriouse will join and pay monthly) renacoder.com (arbitration system) odesk.com (makes screen shots, video of the coders pc so you can see how he is doing. e-slavery ))) If you don't pay coders but use their solutions be ready to deal with a "time-bombs", hack attemps, etc don't think that you can deceive people and be ok. For coders there is no way to protect themselves via leagal. So making a "Demo" version is the only possible way which works. ------------------------ and some weekend fun: http://www.callcentermovie.com/movie/F8MedKf150.swf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9_iQim8Mtw
As to coder, if you are new, and don't have time to gain track record slowly elance.com is a way to go. Entering fee will feed out LOT of freaks.
The same thing with building a home. You can hire the architect, mason, carpenter, dry waller, plumber and electrician. You will need to have the knowledge and time to supervise the process or you will have a mess.
Nice tip. Will have a look. Have just spent $70 dollars on a script. Probally done in 50 mins what I paid a muppet to do on freelancer, I and I don't even do this ofr a living!
I had no idea before that a website involved several people. Just assumed that one person could do the lot, unlike houses. Interesting. So I get somone to code A tester Then an artist or graphics person Is that how I should do it?
how to outsource web development guide 1. Analyze what you need! write on paper discuss with friends/forums/etc... Only you know what you need and you should understand it functions/logic completely! 1.1 Try to split you project in parts by difficulty, search for ready to use widgets/controls/components. 1.2 Try to analyse whom you need to hire. designer/coder/DBA/SEO/etc. (almost every buyer doesn't know what to answer when I ask him about who will input zip codes into the system and other default data.) 2. Browse a template site like templatemonster.com and find some templates you like and some you don't. No need to buy them just to show the designer. 3. Hire a designer. Designers usually provide their portfolio so it will be easy. Ask to provide PS/vector version and xhtml valid version. (reserve about 30% of design budget for later changes/support so your designer will support coder when he need new buttons/icon etc.) 4. as soon as you hire designer start looking for a coder. This is the most critical part. 4.1 talk to previouse buyer or site owners from the coder portfolio. 4.2 ask the coder to provide some code examples of his past projects or create a tiny 2hours demo project for you. Find someone to review this code so you will get a list of questions to ask the coder. 4.3 ask him to review the design/xhtml code that your designer created. 4.5 ask him to provide you a per function schedule. So you know what to check and if the project goes ok. 5. Try to analyze how project goes. Find someone to review the code produced by the coder. hope I didn't miss anything. function schedule example: db design/setup-6h -->review db design project start-2h core/data layer classes functionality - 16h --->site is ready and is accessable (you can try it) admin - user management pages - 4h admin - item management pages -4h --->admin part finished you can test it admin - testing/bugfixes - 2h Front End - items pages -6h Front End - user area -6h --->project is almost finished you can test it Front End - testing/bugfixes -10h --->project is finished.
Will follow that to the letter. Many thanks for that. Seems that there is a lot of misunderstanding between buyers and providers and frustrated parties on both sides, and a lot of wasted time and money
Hi all... Last year I decided to give GAF a go and posted a project. (Google "ioffer clone" it comes up #1) I had quite a few providers give me bids and settled on a company that (at that time) had perfect feedback. CSSAGlobal (dot com) was awarded the project and 3 days were spent creating a contract/agreement to be signed. As soon as the agreement was signed the very first thing they did was stipulate cash up front to start rather than use GAF escrow as agreed to. I saw the feedback and figured this company must be decent so I went ahead and sent them $150 to start on a $1500 project that was to take 60 days and 120 hours of programming. They quickly got a demo site up and started work which looked good to us. About 2 weeks into the project the backend was started and there was an admin logon... the next payment was requested and again in cash not through escrow. This leads me to the point. Getafreelancer.com feedback means absolutely nothing. The way they set it up is to only allow completed projects to post any feedback. If a company doesn't perform or complete your project and you realise your being hosed prior to paying in full, you can't leave any feedback at all!! These scam companies (like CSSAGlobal) know this. My project was horrible programming-wise. They didn't follow any of the points in the agreement, didn't comment anything, didn't send timely software updates, stole every image, cut and paste programming at its worst. When we finally realised what was going on they had our $650 and we had squadooche. When I started adding money only to the escrow account everything stopped including emails, PMs and MSMs... Now I can only post this bad experience in my forums rather than on GAF feedback. And please don't say I should have used escrow from the beginning. Another of the scams is to simply show progress on a project and then request some of the escrow fee's be released, BINGO... same thing, same ripoff. If you can only see GOOD feedback and the rare BAD feedback from a poor soul who actually paid in full and was fully ripped off... then the feedback system is missleading and designed to make every company look like they complete the deals they bid on. Overall these offshore freelance sites are pretty much the same and act as partners to steal from the US/CA buyers that account for 90% of the business they generate. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all programmers are thieves. In fact I believe just the opposite and that it's the few who are making it impossible for a buyer to be sure who they are hiring. GAF did over 5m last year... that's not peanuts. I'm not proud of the fact that I added $650 to that figure. The only way to avoid some problems is to stick to escrow funding and NEVER RELEASE A DIME until your software is in hand and your satisfied with it. BUT BEWARE... GAF is going to back the provider before the buyer if a project is completed and you don't like the end results. Use them at your own risk. cheers and good luck Steven
Remember one thing, at GAF never pay a single cent in advance. Only pay after you get and verify the work 100%. Buyers are so powerfull at GAF, they have all the power. They can even cancel the escrow, as there is no arbitration system.