A Three Man Race

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by KalvinB, Feb 6, 2008.

  1. #1
    Some people are claiming that Huckabee is a spoiler. Well, looking at the numbers, in a number of cases even if Romney got 100% of Huckabee's votes he still wouldn't have beat McCain. And Huckabee even won quite a few states. So really, we have a three man race. If Romney (or his supporters) think that Huckabee should drop out then any reason they can come up with also applies to Romney.

    Romney is just as much a "spoiler" for Huckabee.

    I think McCain is winning because he is what he is. Romney, a Mormon, will change his moral beliefs to suit the race he's in. McCain doesn't sacrifice his morals to win votes. He will compromise to get something, rather than nothing, done. He won't compromise any of his beliefs to win votes. In fact often times when he compromises he risks his career. Huckabee also doesn't stutter when proclaiming his moral beliefs. Both of them have very respectable qualities.

    Because Huckabee is also a strong conservative I think he has a good chance of taking over Romney now that he's shown the rest of the country that he's a viable candidate. Romney's main support is with Mormons. 70% of his donations come from Mormons. When he was the only viable "conservative" he got the votes. But now, all he has going for him that no other candidate has is the Mormon support. And that's not enough.

    It's no longer just a choice between McCain and Romney. In the end I see Huckabee finishing second and becoming McCain's VP candidate.

    What really makes me laugh is that Huckabee was as well known as Ron Paul to start. Ron Paul had a lot of support from the internet and rabid fans. Huckabee just did his thing.

    It just shows that a nobody can become a somebody just by having ideas that people can support. It doesn't matter how fanatic your supporters are: if you don't have ideas nobody will vote for you.

    I actually wouldn't be surprised if Ron Paul lost his job now that people know what he stands for. It would be very easy for another Republican to take his seat just by reminding people of what they learned during the 2008 presidential primaries.

    The Texas primary is March 4th. If Ron Paul gets the 4-6% he's been getting elsewhere in his home state, he's done for. His political career is probably over.

    http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/texas.html

    As of January 31st Ron Paul is polling at 8%.
     
    KalvinB, Feb 6, 2008 IP
  2. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

    Messages:
    3,770
    Likes Received:
    98
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #2
    Huckabee has got far more positive mainstream media support than Paul has and unfortunately a great deal of people still get the majority of their information from the MSM.

    Also: John McCain Lies On Iraq.
     
    Zibblu, Feb 6, 2008 IP
  3. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    262
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #3
    Huckabee without the Evangelicals, or Romney without Mormons, would be game over.

    They aren't running in platform, they are running on identity politics, just as McCain is.
     
    guerilla, Feb 6, 2008 IP
  4. KalvinB

    KalvinB Peon

    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    78
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #4
    Huckabee is running on Tax Reform. Romney is running on the Economy. And McCain is running on Iraq. If you think that's identity politics then you're not paying attention. 83% of black people voted for Obama. Oh but wait, he's a Democrat so lets ignore that.

    Evangelicals are evenly split between the three Republicans. But let's just assume it's an identity thing.

    Huckabee earned the attention. Just like everyone else. It's what you say and who supports you that earns attention.

    Ron Paul is a nobody. Even in the state that elected him, he's reduced to a nobody. He has stupid ideas. It's not just the other candidates that are laughing at him.

    Everyone thought Iraq would be an easy battle. And it was. It didn't take much to take out Saddam and his army. We rolled in, stomped around and would have gotten out of there with a new democratically elected government if not for those pesky terrorists. Now it turned into something else.

    The two front runners supported the war. The issue is the handling of the war. Not the war itself. The anti-war message isn't working for that reason. Obama needs people that believe we won't be going to war in the next 4-5 years because he's certainly doing nothing to convince people he can handle a war. Clinton isn't stupid. She knows she needs to show military leadership skills. Obama, not so much.
     
    KalvinB, Feb 6, 2008 IP
  5. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,080
    Likes Received:
    117
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    175
    #5
    Kalvin, you forgot to mention that the other candidates all have one thing in common. They are all supported by special interest groups. Every candidate supported by a special interest group eventually ends up kissing their you know whats. If you recall bush ran on a humble foreign policy platform. WE all know how radical his foreign policy platform is. All i hear everytime is that they are going to do this and they are going to change that and when they become elected they cant do squat. Its because they have sold themselves off to corporate america. McCain wont sacrifice his morals????/ How do you sacrifice what you dont have? lol
     
    pingpong123, Feb 6, 2008 IP
  6. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

    Messages:
    5,887
    Likes Received:
    96
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    240
    #6
    Bush ran on a humble foreign policy pre 911 but that changed after 9-11 when he understood we live in a dangerous world.

    As for Special Interest group. Last time I checked they were American citizens as well who want to have their voice heard. What is wrong with that.
     
    soniqhost.com, Feb 6, 2008 IP
  7. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    262
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #7
    Obama and Clinton are running on identity politics as well.

    No need to shift the discussion, the reality is that the FairTax supporters are a fairly small voting block. If you look at the crosstabs on the exit polls, Romney is pulling Mormons, McCain is pulling independents, and Huckabee is pulling Evangelicals. That's the exit polls, not my unsubstantiated opinion.

    We don't have to assume, it's the truth.

    This is just a bunch of Ad Hominem attacks. You don't outraise the entire GOP field in a quarter, set 2 single day fundraising records, and pull in the # of second place finishes he has, without being a somebody. You don't get 500,000 votes and outlast Giuliania and Thompson, two former front runners, by being a nobody.
     
    guerilla, Feb 6, 2008 IP
  8. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,080
    Likes Received:
    117
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    175
    #8
    Again more bs. No wmd's in iraq, no al qaida. When are you going to post the facts and the real reasons why we attacked iraq. Do you actually think we will fall for that rudy guliani story. Now all we have the cia and the bush administration giving the run around, and we all know what the cia accused president bush of huh.

    Now how about this dude? I bet if you were a teen groing up in the 1950's you would never know who mossadegh was. Thats cool because few americans knew nothing about him exceopt that he was time magazines man of the year.

    I would like to see you start a thread about how we helped to take out a peaceful president who was elected and replace him with a leader who was never elected and had one of the most brutal leaders of the time who used a secret police force trained by the father of our gulf war 1 general and tortured anyone who didnt agree with him. Thats right, you nor me would ever find out about this until 20 to 30 years later .
    Are you really that naive to believe everything you have been feed with by the media and the administration.
    Knowing what they know now i am 100% sure that 90% or more of americans would never have gone to war in iraq.

    SO Soniq you wanna run that bs story by me again?

    Corporate america and the military industrial complex are 2% of america who have 90% control of things. If you wana loosely call them americans thats your choice, but try asking the foot soldier what he thinks about them. They are starting to wake up.


    To quote the words of Good ole IKE as my uncle so proudly called him

    "A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction...

    This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

    In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

    We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together."

    Im pretty sure that IKE is likely rolling around in his grave knowing the state of affairs we are in, and the control the the MIC has
     
    pingpong123, Feb 6, 2008 IP
  9. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

    Messages:
    5,887
    Likes Received:
    96
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    240
    #9

    [​IMG]

    No Al-Qeada in Iraq. Who cut of Nick Bergs head then? Let me guess it was an inside job.
     
    soniqhost.com, Feb 6, 2008 IP
  10. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    262
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #10
    Do you believe that all violence in Iraq is only Al Queda, and there are not Iraqis seeking to remove the occupation, as well as genocide between Shia and Sunni?

    It's a simplistic view in my opinion, that many people think every evil in the world is now Al Queda. Or that the people of Iraq who want America out of Iraq are not entitled to their resistance.
     
    guerilla, Feb 6, 2008 IP
  11. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

    Messages:
    5,887
    Likes Received:
    96
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    240
    #11
    There is a huge difference in saying that there is No Al Qeada in Iraq and saying that all the violence is attributed to Iraq. Yes there are people who are resisting to a US presence there, just like there is Al Qeada there as is sunni on sunni and shia and shia violence but I believe over time we can build up the country and give Iraqi a stake in their country.

    Do you believe that if we leave that Al Qeada will leave also?
     
    soniqhost.com, Feb 7, 2008 IP
  12. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    262
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #12
    The Iraqi Prime Minister has already asked US forces to leave. Iraq is the 2nd or 3rd most wealthy oil nation. They are more than capable after 6 years of providing their own security, either with their own forces, or with contractors.

    This is all about controlling Iraq for the oil companies. It's no surprise that prices have gone up since the invasion, and they are all showing record profits.
     
    guerilla, Feb 7, 2008 IP
  13. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,080
    Likes Received:
    117
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    175
    #13
    Again your twisting words you know i meant there was no al qaida before the invasion. In fact , terrorists flocked across the borders after the invasion. Please stop the BSSSSSS.

    Say it sonic, there was no al qaida before the invasion!!!!!!!!
    Now your twisting dates around like gtech.
    Let me guess, you knew this and just posted this as some sort of perverse proganada.
     
    pingpong123, Feb 7, 2008 IP
  14. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,080
    Likes Received:
    117
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    175
    #14
    Was there al qaida before the invasion. You know as well as i did there were no al qaida. How about addressing the root problem. The reason why they are attacking us there is because we are there. Saddam posed no threat to anyone and we knew it, yet the head of the cia even said that teh bush administration pushed hard for that war.
    the whole world knows this invasion was bogus and you still are clinging the belief that it was. Like i said, why not ask the iraqi people. they arent as dumb as fox news makes them out to be.

    Why did al qaida go across into iraq??????? Did you ever bother to ask yourself this. Do you truely believe that this administration really cares for the people of iraq???????? Your joking right? Where were they when saddam was being funded and his mohabarat was being trained by the cia? where sonic ? where?
    The problem is you really dont research enough to know anything. The official state report is good enough for you even though it turns out the STATE lied to us.
    Oh i know that you can stand on technicalities( bush lied, the cia lied, bush lied, the cia lied), but the fact is that war was over a lie. Al qaida is there because we are there its as plain as day, and the whole world knows this. Do you truely believe the arab world supports al qaida? They support neither al qaida or the bush administration.
     
    pingpong123, Feb 7, 2008 IP
  15. KalvinB

    KalvinB Peon

    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    78
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #15
    Let's check the polls: Osama Bin Laden gets more votes in the Arab world than Ron Paul gets in the US.

    http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=17884&sec=74&con=32
    So to answer your question. Yes, they do. Why do you think Hamas was democratically elected?

    There is no spoon.
     
    KalvinB, Feb 8, 2008 IP