American Student goes to Palestine to help only to find out the truth

Hundreds of thousands of muslims were fighting in the Nazi army or allied to it and the leader of the Palestininans El Mufti helped plan the holocaust with Eichmann.

Muslims like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are rewriting history calling the extermination of 6 million Jews during World War II a "myth,"

 

Few posts back you claimed this:

So basicly you claim that a guy who helped make plans for holocaust is responsible for only 100,000 deaths?!?
But that's not all you got:

So he was one of initiators of holocaust and not just "helping Eichmann to plan holocaust."!
And again, man who was "one of initiators of holocaust" is responsible for only 100,000 deaths?!?
What's next? You will claim that nazis didn't planned to exterminate Jews (and Slavens, and Romes, and gays etc.) but Mufti make them do it?
Not that I am expecting that you will but let's try it one more time: can you provide reliable source for those two claims:
-hundreds of thousands of muslims were fighting in the Nazi army or allied to it
-the leader of the Palestininans El Mufti helped plan the holocaust with Eichmann
You also claimed that he is responsible for deaths of 100,000 Jews and also said "It is well documented". Well, if it is well documented can you provide us with some documents?

And one more question:when did El Mufti helped Eichmann to make plans for holocaust? Month and year should do.

If you think that his main point isn't to piss off Israel ,mainly, because other than that he can't do much to them you probably take Hugo Chavez seriously too.
And holocaust denial isn't exactly exclusive Muslims or Ahmadinejad thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

 

Deny it all you want, Hajj Amin Al Husseini (Hussayni)- Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was indicted at the Nurenburg War Crime trials.

According to testimony by Nazi war criminals, the Mufti's influence was critical to the German decision to annihilate the Jews of Europe. At the Nuremberg Trials in July 1946, Dieter Wisliceny testified:

"The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chambers of Auschwitz."

The Mufti's role in war crimes was well documented, but he escaped detention in France where he was awaiting trial, and later led the Palestinian civil war against the Jews

In addition to the below numbers, an additional 3000 muslims servered in the Arab Legion. Bosnian Muslims serving in the 13th Waffen Hanjar were approx 21,000. Howver another 80,000 served either in Muslim Waffen SS Division “Kama” as auxlliary police, in croation units or with the utasha.

In addition to planning the Holocaust with Eichman, el Mufti was responsible for 100,000 deaths in an ethnic cleansing campaign.

100,000 Bosnian Muslims volunteered to serve in both the 13th Waffen Hanjar, 23rd Bosnian Muslim Waffen SS Division “Kama”
and 21st Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS Skanderbeg (Albanische Nr. 1).

70,000 Muslim Chechens, Balkars, Ingushi, Karachais, and Crimean Tartars served in the German forces.

20,000 Muslim Crimean Tartar joined the Wehrmacht.

3500 Muslim Indians served in the SS as well.

The Turkestanisch Legion, consisted of Muslim volunteers from Central Asia, like Turkomans, Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Kirghizs, Karakalpaks, and Tadjiks

The Kaukasisch-Mohammedan Legion was from Caucasian Muslims volunteers, like Azeris, Daghestans, Chechens, Ingushes, and Lezghins.

Another 250,000 muslim troops fought with the Nazis in the Vichy Army in North Africa. Vichy forces along with German Air Units assisted the Iraq revolt in 1941.

Vichy Muslim forces in French Morroco opposed the US landing in November 1942 and the US lost approx 700 kia.

 

copy&paste copy&paste copy&paste copy&paste copy&paste
Goebbels would be proud of you!

Sure, it sounds logic. Nazis didn't have plan to exterminate Jews (and Slavens,and Romes, and gays etc) until El Mufti came to Berlin and made them do it.
I've asked you to tell us more about it but have failed (again!).
I can ask over and over and over again and you will fail each single time. If he done what you claim he did there would be A LOT of stuff to prove it.
So tell us, when did he initiated "the systematic extermination of European Jewry"? Also you claimed that he helped Eichmann to make plans for holocaust. When did he do that? Tell us at least year if you can.

He was war criminal but he wasn't what you claim he was.

And additional 4,567,896 served either in McDonalds or Burger King.
How about at least try to prove what you posting?

When did he planned Holocaust with Eichmann? Month? Year? If he done that it would be documented somewhere.
Btw I've see you changed his reposibility for deaths of 100,000 Jews to just 100,000 deaths. When you will start changeing all other false statements?

You don't have prove to me that you copy&paste crap from somewhere over and over again without checking it!
If you look up in your post you will find your claim that 100,000 Bosnian Muslims served in."Bosnian Muslims serving in the 13th Waffen Hanjar were approx 21,000. Howver another 80,000 served either in Muslim Waffen SS Division “Kama” as auxlliary police, in croation units or with the utasha.". However, now you are copy&paste from other source which says a bit diferent thing.

It's allways nice to see when people post reliable sources to back their claims.
But I think you will have kinda hard time to prove that 250,000 Muslims fought in Vichy Army when that same army didn't have more than 150,000 troops in North Africa and 250,000 in total. But of course, now you will say they were allied to them...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France#The_army_of_the_armistice
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=6000

Keep with copy&paste from crap propaganda sites. You may fool someone who doesn't know history or have low IQ.

 

The Nurenburg Truals have document the crimes of Hajj Amin Al Husseini (Hussayni)- Grand Mufti of Jerusalem

Approx 150,000 in North Africa

40,000 men in the "Army of the Levant" in Lebanon and Syria.

Vichy muslim troops in West Africa including Senegal and French Solmalia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France

Additional numbers of muslims served in Vichy Indo China as well as in the Vichy Navy and Airforce.

 

Show us some documents of facts. When did he planned Holocaust with Eichmann? How,when and with who did he initiated "the systematic extermination of European Jewry"? There's no documents about that?

So,out of 150,000 in North Africa there was 250,000 Muslims? Is that what you are trying to say?

 

I can't think of a nation that hasn't been conquered at some stage. Historically if you go back far enough everyone has been invaded and in most cases conquered.
It is a question of when to give up and start life again. It must be very difficult for the Palestinians to give up when there are still living members from before the occupations. They are a proud people and whilst you can sympathise with them, they are not performing their war in a strategic sense.
The attacks which they launch against Israel, make them loose credibility, firing rockets etc indiscriminatley. There is a proper way to wage a war, such as a full scale invasion. If they could muster 10 armoured divisions, 20 squadrons of F 15, then the news would read differently.
But....
They can't, and they never will. Reality needs to settle in that apart, from minor explosions, they have lost. They are never going to get enough cash to win, thus have lost. Time has come to just move on with life and integrate.
The only place the Isrealis have to go is the Mediterranin, and they are backed by an unlimited wealth, technology and a determination nver to let it happen again.

 

Bogard it correct on the muslims in Waffen SS formations.
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/english/bh4145.php
It's not a brilliant link, there aren't a lot of good references to it. I have quite a few books on, old textbooks etc.
They SS would take anybody they thought would fight in fairness, even Englishmen!
The took the muslims, but I cannot see Nazis approving of Muslims, rather they were a tool to be used at the time. In the same way the west used Arabs etc in the Middle East.
Difference is the Arabs were doing it for their home land, but the Eastern European lot....... why were they doing it?

 

A lot of moslems will not accept that hundreds of thousands of muslims were involved in the Holocaust or fought with the nazis.

 

Can you show any kind of proof that "hundreds of thousands of muslims were involved in the Holocaust"? Any kind at all?
One thing is to be involved in Holocaust and other thing is to fought with nazis. Are you trying to say that Muslims from Kaukasus joined nazis to get involved in Holocaust? Seriously, who you trying to fool? Do you think if you repeat your crap enough time it will become truth?
Can you tell us in which country Muslims were involved in Holocaust:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Holocaust
Here's whole table of Holocaust victims:

Take your time and tell everyone where those "hundreds of thousands of muslims were involved in the Holocaust". In which countries?
Take a good look at that "Responsibility for Holocaust" link and learn something. I don't see too many Muslims or Muslim countries there. Do you?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)

I think 13th is the one you were looking for.
I have never understood Serb/ Bosnian history, but you can't help feeling that more recent troubles stem from these routes.
The SS recruited in several ways

1. Supporters and weridos like the British Freikerps etc
2. Those who felt that they were conquered and the SS offered some sort safety and security.. colaberation of French for instance
3. Of the Muslim involvement was really a vessel for older factions and tribalism and sectarianism sort of.
In other words... They had mutual enemies thus supporting the SS wasn't so much aimed at anti semitism as you may think, but a way of settling old scores. Imagine if the Nazis landed in Palestine and offered state of the art weapons for fighting the Israelis. Tanks planes, support and training.
In support of the muslims of the time, generally this sort of support for say the Nazis usually stems from opression or percieved oppression. They must have had a pretty tough life in order to feel that forming the 13th was a solution

 

Erm this is actually evidence of involvement!

 

Sure it is but hardly for Muslims or Muslim countries. Or do you want to say you see there "hundreds of thousands of muslims were involved in the Holocaust"?
Take your time and read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Holocaust

 

I think that Iggy needs a new calculator.

Here's another 90,000 muslims that you can add to your count

Pro-Nazi Soviet Muslims

During the war, 70,000 Turkestanis volunteers served within the German forces: 40,000 soldiers and 30.000 military workers. In 1943, the Turkestanis had 15 battalions and one year later grew-up to 26 battalions. Those battalions mainly were integrated as independent battalions within German divisions.

the Turkestanisch Legion, consisted Muslim volunteers from Central Asia, like Turkomans, Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Kirghizs, Karakalpaks, and Tadjiks; and Kaukasisch-Mohammedan Legion from Caucasian Muslims volunteers, like Azeris, Daghestans, Chechens, Ingushes, and Lezghins. Beside a separated unit consisted Muslim Tartars, Wolgatatarische Legion, was formed in Poland on January 1942.[

there was also a full division of the Turkestanis volunteers: the 162.Turkestanisch Infanterie Division. Composed of Germans, Turkomans, and Azeris

Crimean Muslim Tartars was not only gladly collaborating with the Germans, but was also supplying the Wehrmacht with 20,000 soldiers.

Muslim Units were attached to the SS Dirlewanger Brigade, where they were participated in killing 200,000 Polish civilians in the Warsaw uprising.

 

I think that it is not meantioned an the Wilki simply as a single page they are limited to the depth they could go. There is overwhelming evidence to support this their involvement, but the article is about the cause. They were instruments not the cause

 

Again, you are trying to rewrite history.
Post after post after post you repeating false facts and fail to back up them. Last one of your lies was that "hundreds of thousands of muslims were involved in the Holocaust". If you can prove it I will apologize to you otherwise I will call you a liar. Is it so obvious what are you doing. But as long as you are ready to posting your propaganda crap I am ready to discredit it.

Read one more time and answer the questions instead of doing copy&paste without checking what you posting (as usual):

So, there is "overwhelming evidence to support this their involvement" that "hundreds of thousands of muslims were involved in the Holocaust" but somehow bogart can't show any of it? Can you do it than?

 

iggysick:

Are you not reading Bogarts posts?

You ask for data, he gives you the requested data, and then you complain that you can't see it.

I suggest that you take a course in reading comprehension.

Or, perhaps you should just stop ignoring all data that doesn't support your pre-conceived notions.

 

Is that why he can't answer one single question I've asked him? Is that why he avoided them? Should I now repeat all my questions and you will show me where did he provided answers? Is that ok with you?
If he can't answer questions and back up his answers with sources I will call it crap propaganda because it is nothing but crap propaganda.
But somehow I am not surprised that you are supporting lies because those lies are about Muslims.

 

Iggy is in denial

As I recall I said that hundreds of thousand of muslims either were involved in the holocaust or fought for the nazis. Add the muslims serving the Nazis from the Balkans (Croatia, Bosnia, Albania), Vichy forces (North Afrika, Syria, Senega, West Afrika, French Somalia) and Soviet Union ( Central Asia, like Turkomans, Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Kirghizs, Karakalpaks, and Tadjiks; Caucasian Muslims volunteers, like Azeris, Daghestans, Chechens, Ingushes, and Lezghins and Crimean Tatars) and you get hundreds of thousands.

What do you call serving in a SS Division and giving an oath to Hitler?

How about the Mufti and Hitler?

 

Bogart, you are a liar and as long as you ready to post your lies and I am ready to discredit them.
I've asked you numerous questions but you failed to answer any single of them because it is obvious that you can't. I am not disputing a fact that around 2 millions non-germans were fighting along with nazis (and great majority of them were christians not Muslims!) but I am disputing your interpretation of that involvement and your false statements.
It is more than obvious that you've posted quotes from various crap propaganda sites hoping noone will ask you any question about what have you posted. You've posted different info about same stuff and changed some stuff you posted like that calim about Muftis responsibility for deaths of 100,000 jews.
That famous "hundreds of thousands" quote you got from a guy who also claims:

Are you that desperate to back up your crap to use this author for that?

I've have posted questions and you avoided them. Why? If you are right and know all facts you will have no problem in answering them.

You are the one that want to prove that everyone who done that done it because he shared nazi ideology which is far away from truth. You forget that whole Soviet Union was under dictatorship and that Stalin was brutal dictator and after german invasion a lot of people welcomed germans as liberators and joined them. It has nothing to do with nazi ideology. They joined them to fight communism not because they shared same ideology as nazis.

Sure, he met with Hitler and he was war criminal. Your point?
How about these priests and cardinal and Hitler?




Now, should I quote all my questions again so that you can answer them?
Again, if I am in denial and you are right you wouldn't have problems to answer them, right?