First off, Its an addition to logic not a lack of, secondly i will say this. FOX News reports 95% of all Americans believe in God, are only the 5% "grown up"? True as stated, in that simple form. Im glad you confident you can prove evolution, because you would be the first to do it. I do not assume, i know that creation is right, that makes evolution wrong. You seem to think you have all the answers, well here are a few that come to mind. How did the heart, lungs, brain, stomach, veins, blood, kidneys, etc. develop in the first animal by slow, minute steps and the animal survive while these changes were occurring? For example, did the first animal develop 10% of complete veins, then 20%, and on up to 100%, with veins throughout its entire body and brain? Then how did the heart slowly develop in the animal and get attached to the veins in the right spot? How did the blood enter the system? The blood could not enter before the veins were complete or it would spill out. Where did the blood come from? Did the blood have red corpuscles, white corpuscles, platelets, and plasma? At what point in this process of development did the heart start beating? Did the animal develop a partial stomach, then a complete stomach? After the stomach was formed, how did the digestive juices enter the stomach? Where did the hydrochloric acid as part of the digestive juices come from? What about its kidney and bladder? The animal better not eat anything prior to this. How did the animal survive during these changes? (And over thousands of years?) Of course, at the same time the animal's eyes must be fully developed so it can see its food and his brain must be fully developed so the animal can control its body to get to the food. Like the heart, brain, veins, and stomach, all of the organs and systems in the first animal's body must be fully functional in the first moments of life. This indicates that evolution couldn't occur, and the fossil record indicates that it didn't occur!!! In other words, if you cannot come up with a detailed, feasible scenario of how the first animal developed, the whole evolutionary theory goes out the window, because it never could have even gotten started! Or is your attitude going to be: "Don't bother me with such details. My mind is made up."?
What I love most about this is you admit your thinking is 100% illogical and makes no sense, yet you expect us to explain our position in entirety. If you find any flaw in our position you gloat and use that as further proof that your position is correct. (Logical fallacy) Can you please explain in detail how your god made earth? Can you explain in detail how your god was made? PS: Your avatar isn't helping your argument at all.
You answered your own question. the animals survived because the changes were minute. the first instance of lungs, hearts, brain, kidneys and livers were parts of the organism that hardly performed the function at all. the first heart would hardly pump any blood, or perhaps water, Around the organism. The first lungs would hardly draw any air into a cavity, the first brain would have been nothing more than one or two neurons. but because the ability to hardly perform the function is better than not performing the function at all the organs developed further until they become what we see today. When these organs and functions first started developing they were in much simpler creatures. they were in creatures that didn't really need a heart or lungs, but the development of a heart of lung, No matter how primitive, Was beneficial. And as such natural selection had something to favour. if you don't want people to make fun of your intellect you really shouldn't be making statements like this. What makes you think that hearts, brains, veins and stomachs had be fully functional in the first animals body? There are creatures around now that don't have some of them. the jelly fish has none.
What i said was, the logical mind does not understand. Is it logical, for a man to be raised from the dead? No its not, its super natural, requires a higher system of thought. The truth is i can not explain how God created the world, i honestly dont know, the bible says he breathed it into existence. He is God, a blink of an eye would cure a mans paralysis. You guys on the other hand claim to know, so i ask you to explain. But what i get are bits and piece of a puzzle, that doesn't fit together. Like i said i dont know, and God was not created, he is the creator of creation. He is, has been and always will be. PERIOD
If god is so powerful then why are churches always asking for donations? Mm he can cure paralysis in the blink of an eye but he needs your $20 for some reason? That was SCAM written all over it. I wish I could make stuff up to attempt to win debates. That would first require me to admit I'm illogical though
If these organs were not fictional, or were "hardly" functional, why were they needed in the first place, what progressive mutation caused them to be if they were not needed. Better yet, if they were not functional, how did the developing organism know they would be needed in the future. You seem to give these primitive creatures the ability to make some smart decisions, yet according to you it creates organ that dont work, or dont work well. Either something is wrong with the theory, or these organisms can see the future.
Imagine being able to make shit up on a whim just to try and disprove evolution and reality. God and all that stuff is make believe. It was made up for things that could not be explained years ago. Now that science has progressed, we can prove theories and disprove biblical fairytales.
Take a loot at how many human organs aren't needed for survival but help us out: GALLBLADDER. Stores bile for digestion. Removed to eliminate gallstones, which can cause pain, vomiting, infections and pancreatitis. Following removal, 5 percent of patients get diarrhea after eating hard-to-digest foods. APPENDIX. Finger-shaped tube projecting from large intestine. Taken out if it becomes inflamed and infected by appendicitis. No ill effects from removal. SPLEEN. Filters blood and produces white blood cells. Removed if damaged by a traumatic injury or a blood disorder. Liver takes over much of its function. Without spleen, a patient faces a less than .1 percent chance of a certain severe infection. THYROID. Secretes thyroid hormones, which control metabolism. Thyroid is removed if it becomes overactive or cancerous. The patient must take thyroid hormones for a lifetime. TONSILS AND ADENOIDS. Help fight infections. When enlarged, they can cause chronic ear infections, hearing loss, sinus infections, nosebleeds and sleep apnea. No ill effects from removal. PAIRED ORGANS. If one kidney, lung, testicle, ovary or adrenal gland is removed for reasons such as cancer or organ donation, the patient can do fine with the remaining single organ. http://www.iconocast.com/dinner-movie/Health3_News12_04/Health9H.htm Making sense now?
I agree totally, truth is Tithing was an old testament command, we are asked to give, but not the way the traditional churches do it. In New Testament days, leaders were normally not paid. That is, money was given more as a gift than as an income or a salary. Leaders like Paul could receive money, but Paul chose not to receive any from the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 9:8-12). He wanted to serve without depending on any church for financial support. Churches had a responsibility to "reward the ox" (1 Timothy 5:17) and to share with those who taught (Galatians 6:6). But money was never to be the driving force of ministry (1 Peter 5:2). Unfortunately, churches today will not call a man until they feel they can support him, and some men will not seriously consider a call if the financial package is "inadequate" (All Things New [Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1995] p.240). I didnt make anything up, The bible has been around a lot longer than evolution, and has never been proven wrong
You do understand that something can not be needed but still be beneficial, Right? Do you understand how that works? think about using public transport. A car isn't needed, but it would be beneficial. You can still get to work (assuming anyone will employ you) using public transport, But people who own cars have a beneficial advantage. If an organism has a circulatory system that relies on the natural flow of fluid around it's body it wouldn't need a muscle which purpose is to force fluid around it's body. but should such muscle develop it would be beneficial. This is brilliant. i don't think i could have demonstrated how infantile your understanding of evolution is any better. Do you think evolution works because animals decide they would like to have a function? Do you think reptiles thought one day "would be nice to fly" and so developed feathers and wings? Anyway, Ignoring how facile and childish your points are i feel obliged to address them. The organisms didn;t need to "think" a heart may be beneficial in the future, It was beneficial at that time. the first heart would have been nothing more than a small muscle around a primitive artery. when the muscle contracted it forced fluid around the body. even though the animal got on fine without it, Once it developed it proved advantageous over organisms that lacked the ability to force fluid around it's body. And advantageous qualities mean a longer life span and more opportunities to reproduce which means the genetics of organisms with beneficial traits becomes more widespread in the population and results in all member of that species obtaining that trait.
My question is why, why did they evolve if they werent really needed, i know they exist, that wasnt the question.
Ok what caused that muscle to develop, and why? Just chance? Did the heart happen into existence? Still why? Especially since it got a long fine without it
It would be beneficial if man could breath under water too, that doesn't make it happen, think of all the lives that would have been saved from drowning
A tiny mutation that either grew a muscle where there previously wasn't a muscle or grew an existing muscle too close to the artery. What do you mean why? Evolution and natural selection don't look for gaps and then fill them. it works by random mutations. If a random mutation proves to be beneficial it get's passed on.
It's too far in the evolutionary process for something like that to develop. our lungs function entirely by drawing in air, No mutation big enough could occur now that would allow us to draw in water and extract oxygen from it.
So evolution means we were created by chance, thats all i wanted to hear. Now here are the options 1 God created everything, placed every organ right where it needed to be, aligned the planets just right so that the life that he was preparing to place on earth could survive there. He then created animals and plants elements and everything else. 2. By chance an algae or fungus of some sort appeared from nothing, next "by chance" or "random mutation", developed the ability to multiply, then through more chance mutations, began to grow muscles and veins and other organs, in just the right spots, "by chance" And by chance came man, with the ability to think, feel, love and hate. Look at the vastness of the world, how perfectly everything works together. is it really so hard to believe that someone (God) created this place we call home, aligned everything up just right, created man and woman. Or do we give all of this glory to chance. Its like defeating the odds of a billion to one, over and over and over, billions of times. For me this is over for now. If your willing to believe, you and i developed from nothing, by accident. Than you are the one who is imagining. Paintings dont paint themselves
It's evident you have little to no understanding of evolution. I fail to see how you can justify making up history without even taking a look at what tens of thousands of scientists have to say. I wish you applied this much critical thinking when it comes to religion and the bible. That's laughable. Seriously, if you think everything in the bible happened debating with you is beyond pointless.
the mutations are random and there are hundreds in every generation. when a random mutation occurs that proves to be beneficial it propagates in subsequent generations via natural selection. you have only just realised that? They would if they reproduced sexually, Mutations occurred and the ones most like a "painting" were best suited to their environment.
These are just some of the scientist that do not believe in your theory, at one time all of the scientist in the world believed the world was flat, one man said otherwise. John L. Omdahl, Prof. Of Biochemistry and Molec. Biology, U. of New Mexico • Robert D. Moyer, Technical Staff, SNL • Bernd R. Schlei, Technical Staff, LANL • W. Kent Schubert, Technical Staff, SNL • Rebecca Keller, Research Prof., Dept. of Chem., U. of New Mexico • David Keller, Assoc. Prof. of Chem., U. of New Mexico • G. Ron Hadley, Technical Staff, SNL • Douglas R. Weiss, Technical Staff, SNL • Robert S. Chambers, Technical Staff, SNL • Terry Hinnerichs, Technical Staff, SNL • John Torczynski, Technical Staff, SNL • Edward L. Burgess, Technical Staff, SNL (ret.) • Harold Delaney, Professor, Dept. of Psychology, U. of New Mexico • Nathan E. Bixler, Technical Staff, SNL • Joseph D. Renick, MS Mech. Eng., Arizona State U. • Michael S. Kent, Technical Staff, SNL • William H. McCulloch, Technical Staff, SNL (ret.) • Joe R. Weatherby, Technical Staff, SNL • David K. Mehne, MD, U. of Arizona • John C. Garth, Ph. D. Physics, U. of Ill, Champaign-Urbana • Jeffrey Mahn, Technical Staff, SNL • Terry Hardin, MS Elect. Eng., U. of New Mexico • Gary A. Dilts, PhD. Mathematical Physics, Univ. of Colorado Roger Lenard, Technical Staff, SNL • R. Barry King, Prof. Of Environ. Safety and Health, Albq. Tech. Vocational Institute • John R. Doughty, Ph. D. Aerospace & Mech. Eng., U. Of Arizona • Daniel W. Barnette, Technical Staff, SNL • Ronald H. Price, Technical Staff, SNL • Roy Holt, Technical Staff, SNL • Linda Walkup, Ph. D. Molecular Genetics, U. of New Mexico Medical School • Frank Young, Technical Staff, SNL • Michael B. McLean, Technical Staff, SNL • Harvey Ogden, Technical Staff, SNL • Mark De Spain, Technical Staff, SNL • Shelley Nuttal Martinez, MS Infor. Systems, U. of Miami, Fl • Philip R. Page, Technical Staff, LANL • Rondall E. Jones, Technical Staff, SNL • Meiring Nortier, Technical Staff, LANL • William Powers, Technical Staff, LANL • Ginger De Marquis, Technical Staff, SNL • Kevin Eklund, Technical Staff, SNL • “WE ARE SKEPTICAL OF CLAIMS FOR THE ABILITY OF RANDOM MUTATION AND NATURAL SELECTION TO ACCOUNT FOR THE COMPLEXITY OF LIFE. CAREFUL EXAMINATION OF THE EVIDENCE FOR DARWINIAN THEORY SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED.†• Charles B. Fite, Technical Staff, LANL • Vern Hershberger, MS Haz. Waste / Material Mgmt, Ariz. State U. • Robert C. Siegrist, MS. Management Information Systems, Golden Gate U., CA • John Baumgardner, Technical Staff, LANL • David Noble, Technical Staff, SNL • Malcolm R. Fisher, MS. Elect. Eng, U. of New Mexico • Clark Dohrmann, Technical Staff, SNL. • Mark. Rodriguez, Technical Staff, SNL • Mark F. Smith, Technical Staff, SNL • Daryl W. Grunau, Technical Staff, LANL • Anthony Bentley, Technical Staff, SNL • Donald R. Locker, MS Physics, U. of Washington • Chris Stageman, MS Geology, New Mexico State • Joe Vigil, Technical Staff, SNL • Paul Faculjak, MS Statistics, U. of New Mexico • Russell Abbink, MS Elect. Eng., U. of Nebraska • Michael W. Edenburn, Technical Staff, SNL • Ana Martinez, Technical Staff, SNL • Scott E. Klenke, Technical Staff, SNL • Charlotte R. Abbink, Assoc. Prof. Emeritus, U. of New Mexico, College of Nursing • Teresa Larranaga, Ph.D. Pharmacy, U. of New Mexico • Kelly D. Hammett, Ph.D. Aeronautical Eng., Air Force Institute of Technology • Christopher K. Wojahn, Technical Staff, SNL • Paul E. Hausgen, Ph.D. Mech. Eng., Georgia Inst. of Tech. • Nathan Tumlison, MS Physical Therapy, U. of Central Arkansas • Beatrice J. Burchfield, MS Physics and Mathematics, U. Wisconsin and U of Ill. • Patricia Stephens, Associate Dean of Health Occupations, Albq. Technical Vocation Institute • John Martin, MD., U. of New Mexico School of Medicine • J. Douglas Bentley, Technical Staff, SNL • Graham Yelton, Technical Staff, SNL • Paul D. Price, MS Environ. Eng., NJ Institute of Tech. • Fred James, Technical Staff, SNL • Donald L. Burwell, MS Nuclear Science and Eng, Carnegie Mellon U. • Dale Erickson, MD, Indiana U., School of Medicine • Jeff B Ogden, MS Elect. Eng., U. of New Mexico •Jacquie Gladwell, MD, U. of New Mexico School of Medicine • Linda M. McClanahan, MS Exercise Physiology, UNM • Marc Apkarian, Ph.D. Exercise Physiology, U. of New Mexico • Todd N. Hinnerichs, MS Mech. Eng., U. of New Mexico • Bryan M. Wayne, MD, U. of Texas Health Science Center • Jeanette Keenan, MS, Nursing, Yale U. • Pharis E. Williams, M.S. Physics, US Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, CA, (ret.) • Rick Cole, MS Science Education, NM Tech. • Cecilia M. Colucci, MSE, Arizona State U. • Sue A. Erickson, Ph.D. Health Education, U. of New Mexico • Daniel R. Galassini, Doctor of Vet. Med., Kansas State U. • Gage Blackstone, Doctor of Vet. Med., Texas A&M • Wu-Ching Cheng, Technical Staff, SNL •