Why war in Iraq cannot be won

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by demosfen, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. #1
    Ever wondered why the best-trained and equipped army in the world cannot win against a bunch of barbarians who don't even have a helicopter? Check Tommy Frank's biography. Even Wikipedia admits he dropped out of college in his sophomore year after being put on probation for low grades. This is also where other people unable to make it in real world end up.

    So he dropped out and joined the army. There he was trained to be a cryptographic analyst. I had minor expose to cryptography in college myself and my impression was that hard mental work is involved. Maybe the US Army is so good they can even train a moron to become a cryptography analyst. Or perhaps the rest of candidates were even dumber. After all, considering that he advanced to the very top, he must've been one of the brighter people to join the army.

    I don't believe for a minute Haliburton & Co. want to win this war. It'd end their stream of income and cause shareholder value to drop dramatically. But even IF winning was the objective, no way this army can defeat a group of stone age savages with average IQ. It's not enough to have plenty of Humvees, you also need to know what to do with them
     
    demosfen, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  2. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #2
    Now your getting closer to the truth demos. Those companies dont care about our soldiers. This profit stream is too big for them to care. The only reason deaths have come down recently as everyone really knows isnt the surge but the deals we are striking with the iranian government we swore to never deal with as the bush administration said they are terrorists. The iranian government would also love this war to keep going forever as its making its job much easier for them.

    Bush said no wmd's in iraq and gtech keeps claiming there were some found. Maybe he should be the next advisor to GB.
     
    pingpong123, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  3. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #3
    That's hard to say, but striking a deal with Iran is never safe, remember Oliver North during the Reagan Administration, you never know when Iran would turn around and bite your hand after they had gain all the favors and decided to call it a day.

    That really tainted Reagan otherwise illustrious career as President.

     
    wisdomtool, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  4. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #4
    I wouldn't blame the "coalition of the Billing". We don't care if people die, but once people put 1+1 together, and realize the country has been bankrupted with this foreign policy, and they can't afford anything, then it's going to be game over.
     
    guerilla, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  5. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #5

    Some Other College drop outs include Larry Ellison, the billionaire who owns Oracle. Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs. Not bad company to be in if your Tommy Franks.
     
    soniqhost.com, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  6. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #6
    The Iraq war was won by the US.

    The War on terror is still ongoing and will take 20 years. The next battleground is Afganistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan.
     
    bogart, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  7. AGS

    AGS Notable Member

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    #7
    Have you been sniffing turps again bogart? :confused:
     
    AGS, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  8. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #8
    How to do you define Winning, Bush said it takes about 10 years occupation of Iraq, that would mean trillions upon trillions of dollars on the war efforts. Doesn't sound like winning IMHO. Both sides lost in the war.

     
    wisdomtool, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  9. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #9
    Iraqi security forces have begun a "decisive" final offensive against Al Qaeda in Iraq to push them out of their last major bastion in the north

    http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=206934&Sn=WORL&IssueID=30312

    The United States is "ready, willing and able" to conduct joint combat operations with Pakistani troops against insurgents in Pakistan

    http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hln-7VPlTk0LFjxujk-sGJSbPM4w
     
    bogart, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  10. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #10
    USA may be willing but the geopolitical situation doesn't seem to me that Pakistan is a willing partner. They may be seen as puppets of USA. I doubt that's what they want when they had an election around the corner.


     
    wisdomtool, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  11. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #11
    What you are seeing now are extremists and weapons coming from Iran and Syria.

    The Iraqi security forces are get stronger allowing for US redeployment to Afganistan and Pakistan.
     
    bogart, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  12. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #12
    The 3000 extra troops was drawn from USA to afganistan rather than from Iraq, IMHO, there is still a dire shortage of troops in Iraq.


     
    wisdomtool, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  13. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #13
    The iraqi muhabarat are probably joing forces with people on the inside in iraq, coupled with no way to stop terrorists from crossing the border, as soon as that deal with iran goes sour, things will heat up again. We all know syria isnt going to close their border. It only benefits them to have it open. The terroprists will leave their country and enter iraq. People that know that region know that teh assads have always had to watch their back with the muslim brotherhood movement in syria but they have supressed it brutally especially when hafaz assad was president. I mean the guy literally bulldozed a whole town and built another one on top of it.
     
    pingpong123, Jan 26, 2008 IP
  14. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #14
    We'll be broke long before the (sic) War on Terror is won. It's merely the greatest swindle in the history of American politics, as domestic wealth is sapped off to war profiteers, and the domestic citizenry is left with a massive foreign debt that cannot be repaid.

    Very sad to see America brought down this way, and while the facts are out there, people continue to want to see it's speedy destruction by furthering a failed foreign policy.
     
    guerilla, Jan 27, 2008 IP
  15. AGS

    AGS Notable Member

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    #15
    It's a psuedo "Gung-Ho" patriotism brought on by years and years of shitty American war movies mate.
     
    AGS, Jan 27, 2008 IP
  16. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #16
    I am wondering, even if you gave the Iraqi forces the best training and equipment, it is no guarantee that their M1As or Apache cannons provided by USA wouldn't be aimed at the US forces in a confrontation.

    Unless you can do as what the Turkish succeed in doing, having a military that is professional and secular. But I don't see that happening and I don't think it takes a day or two or a year or two.
     
    wisdomtool, Jan 27, 2008 IP
  17. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #17
    What about 5 years?

    The idea is not for Iraq to have it's own army. The idea is for the US to provide security in return for oil rights indefinitely.

    However, as the war has proven, it won't protect the price of oil, and any profits made will not be coming home to America, but going to BP and other groups shareholders internationally.

    Again, it's a swindle. There is a security threat, but it was never in Iraq, and the war has been a farce. How we can continue to spend $250+ Billion a year, to combat Al Queda, a group with roadside bombs, relatively small numbers, no navy, airforce or proper army defies logic and reason.
     
    guerilla, Jan 27, 2008 IP
  18. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #18
    Just a rough gauge, to build a fighting division will take a year or two, 5 years should be enough to built a working army. There is no point in USA staying there, though a team of military "advisors" would be useful.

    Staying there is just to make it easier for the jihadist to kill more American troops and allow Iran to foment more hatred against USA in the region.

    The most important thing would be to established some sort of power sharing and equilibrium among the various Iraqi factions before US troops withdraw such that US can still influence the Iraqi political and military decision makings in a subtle way.

     
    wisdomtool, Jan 27, 2008 IP
  19. cdpm

    cdpm Banned

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    #19
    Nope, USA is clearly not a winner but a loser..same goes when they invaded vietnam and iran
     
    cdpm, Jan 27, 2008 IP
  20. demosfen

    demosfen Peon

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    #20
    What are you talking about? They didn't drop out because they couldn't keep up academically. It was for different reasons
     
    demosfen, Jan 27, 2008 IP