Do you believe in abortion? 35th Year Anniversary Today.

Again, I really hate it when people talk like WOMEN are the only ones that need to take responsibility. We need to encourage EVERYONE, not just women, to make smarter choices.

In an ideal world, everyone would wait until their married to have sex. But, we need to be REAL because that is not the reality we live in. We need to educate boys AND girls about birth control and stop putting the blame fully on the woman. It takes two to make a baby......I have been using birth control since I was 16 and have never had a pregnancy scare, so I take responsibility for myself. I'm not ready to be a mommy. But if guys aren't ready to be called "daddy", they need to take steps to prevent pregnancy too. No matter what the woman says, wants, or tell you. STOP THROWING ALL YOUR RESPONSIBILITY ONTO THE WOMAN!!

And I really don't fully agree with adoption as the answer either. Again, in the ideal world every baby that was put up for adoption would be given to the greatest family and grow up being loved and wanted. But that doesn't happen. Millions of children sit unwanted, unloved, and ignored waiting....when we can find a solution for our already overcrowded system I will be ALL for adoption and the one and only answer.....

Don't get me wrong here. I don't agree that we should have 1-hour abortion clinics on every corner, nor do I believe every adoption experience is a bad one. I just try to look at the situation realistically. Not every situation is under our control.....

If I had my way on how to control the population I would sterilize every person that was unfit to contribute to the gene pool. And you know they kind of people I'm talking about....the people you see at the grocery store that have 12 children running around screaming. And the parents have ABSOLUTELY NO common sense and don't even look like they can responsibly take care of themselves!

 

Someone got me off topic, scroll up I was posting a picture related to the "gun to protect against rapist" theory. You can see above, I'll get back on topic now.

 

I hate to do this, as being pro choice myself.....

If you believe that abortions should be legal, then you should have no problem with the below link...

http://www.silentscream.org/

*** Warning: This is a REAL abortion at 11 weeks and is not ment for children and is not safe for work. ***

 

But i stated previous to that, that i knew it wouldn't apply in all cases. I should have said "it can help the odds" i suppose. I didn't think you, or anyone would take it so literal to think i thought that was the cure for rape, obviously nothing is 100%.

Proper training as in the 12 week course on weapon handling that i took. Regular target shooting, enrolling in a self defense class, such as karate, not short term, but long term.

And no not forced labor, but allowing a child that had nothing to do with the actions of either person to have the chance at the life it has started, rather than killing it.

 

If the woman took responsibility for HERSELF it doesn't matter how much responsibility the man took. yes the man should take precautions, But if he doesn't it is the woman's responsibility to not have sex with him. Not blame the man for not taking responsibility for HER body after she gets pregnant.

All it looks like you are doing is looking for someone else to blame for mistakes made by women. That is the opposite of being responsible.

I'm not. I'm throwing the woman's responsibility for herself and for her body onto the woman. How is that unreasonable? Nobody else can be responsible for you and your body.

 

Stox thats just pathetic, it takes 2 people to have a baby, one being the man, the reponsibility is 50/50

 

I didn't see it as off topic at all. I was also taken aback by an image of a women in the midst of assault, with a "LOL" post accompanying it. And I don't understand your inclusion of some kind of "Jewish" thing.

 

Since this particular sub-issue falls on rapes, and abortion, then, yes, what you write is actually important to the debate. You further went on to say another absolute statement:

I would add that unless your training includes realistic scenarios of what can happen out there - such as being jumped from behind, or multiple person attacks, you're also in for a bad illusion when it comes to the street. You're also in for a world of hurt if you don't train this way the rest of your life.

You initially said, "carry mace or gun," with no discussion of training. Glad to see that you are, now.

So, if I have it correct - the solution in your mind, is for every woman to enroll in a 12 week course in weapons handling, enroll in program of realistic martial training, and commit the rest of her life to this kind of intensive, rigorous training - this is your answer to the issue of rape and abortion?

All of which brought me to conclude, anyway, that you just don't have experience with what actually happens in the world of violent crime, but were making pronouncement nonetheless.

A woman raped doesn't want to carry the child. Can you tell me how you accomplish:

Without:

? Forced C-section, is this what you are proposing?

 

If a man doesn't take precautions then the woman is responsible for deciding to sleep with him. Ultimately she is responsible for her own body and what may happen to her own body should she sleep with a man who isn't taking precautions.

It's the opposite of being responsible if, when the woman finds she is pregnant, she blames the man for not being responsible when she knew full well he wasn't being responsible before hand.

What she is doing by this is demanding that he is not only responsible for his own actions, but also responsible for hers and any bad decisions she may make.

 

North.

I dont know why you always insist on complicating my statements, they weren't meant to be absolute, they more or less meaning chances aren't likely. I'm sorry if you need that pointed out to you, but its rather common in English conversation.

I stand on this

1. I feel it is better to have a weapon than not. Most rapist use their strength not a gun. The sight of a gun alone COULD scare of a perp.

2. Using everyday common since will lessen the chances of being a victim to any violent crime. What is common since? Dont walk down a dark alley, Dont walk alone after dark, pay attention to your surroundings, If you feel like your being followed enter a public place with lots of people. These are just a few common since things that will help your odds.

3. Abortion kills babies, and i dont think that is OK, just because someone is emotionally disturbed about the situation.

These are my opinions, i have a right to them. North why not post your opinions on the matter, all i ever see you do is tear apart everyone Else's beliefs.

Stox.

Both should be taking precaution, if you dont have a rubber, you need to be responsible enough to say i cant do this. Why should a woman have to tell you no, when you know your not protected.

 

I know that I mentioned this above, but nobody has wanted to actually debate it yet, If Abortion was made illegal and not made accessible to women around the world, The results would be absolutely catastrophic.

Can you imagine the amount of children being placed in an Orphanage. The amount of Dead Beat parents would obviously increase and Child Abuse would be in the millions. Women have abortions for these reasons.

Yes, I agree it is the decision of BOTH PARTIES (Male and Female) to make a sound decision when hopping into bed with each other, but mistakes do happen.

Do you have any idea how much time and effort a woman needs to put into raising their baby? Some women just don't have the stomach for it. And I am not one to judge them because that's their perogative and not mine. When it all comes down to it, I personally would sleep more sound at night time knowing that the CHOICE of abortion is there for these women, rather than forcing them into something they are not ready for. By forcing someone into having a child there are so many concequences, and one's that I personally can not stomach to think about.

 

We have managed without for thousands of years. If it were illegal people would think twice. If that option was not there it would make the decision a little more important.

Your statement in red above. That is why it should be illegal. These young kids that screw around, sleep better also because they know that there is a solution, if they become pregnant from one of the guys they are sleeping around with.

Abortion enables underage sex, and reduces sexual responsibility

 

Well, since you've chosen to go this route, Simply, the problem is that you can't manage basic english usage, and fundamental logic seems to be an issue as well. My pointing both out isn't the problem, Simply.

And I have made my position clear, many times. Did you need an additional cut and paste of the several times I have said so? If so, I'll just start from the latest, and go backwards.

A woman raped doesn't want to carry the child. Can you tell me how you accomplish:

Without:

? Forced C-section, is this what you are proposing?

 

Geez man, I tell you Ive been all over the world, and you say i claim to be an astronaut.

Apparently you dont understand the concept of figurative speaking, so for you north, i will be sure that i say exactly what i mean, and I'm doing this for you because Ive never had a problem with anyone else understanding my meaning.

 

That's exactly what I've been trying to say. Very nice way of putting it. It's NOT ok for a man to act like a whore and have unprotected sex just because they can't get pregnant. Men have the responsibility of saying NO too.....

I can't say I agree that women should carry the child that is the product of incest or rape because I wouldn't want to do that. But, I understand that you believe it's murder no matter what and I can respect that.

But, we pride ourselves on being a free nation full of choices. I just don't agree that just because YOU think it's murder no matter what the circumstance that I have to believe the same thing. And that opinion should NOT be forced upon me by our government........

 

Well, as I understand figurative speech, anyway, it is language that is used to add emphasis to a point to be made; it can be quite fun, colorful, poetic, even; it can contain a skillful use of metaphor, irony, and many other devices that can prove helpful, so long as the writer is both clear in his or her mind, and cogently making the point in the word on the page.

Now, again, starting backwards, and could be me, of course, but I am having a problem, for instance, understanding your masterful use of figurative speech here:

Because, for the life of me (and forgive my limitations), I cannot see how, metaphorically speaking, of course, and speaking of a woman raped who may not want to carry a rapist's seed to fruition, as I said, how one can give birth without it being a forced labor. Unless, of course, you are advocating forced C-section, hence my question.

Now, again, forgive my simple mind, but the same thing obtains when, for instance, someone has an aversion to onion-plum-pancreas pie. For the life of me - and, again, I must have missed your masterful irony here - I can't figure how that person will get the crap down his or her gullet, hating it so, without being forced to do it.

Can you tone this subtlety of thought stuff down, just a bit, for my elemental mind?

Oh, and

Man, this figurative junk sure is confusing to me...my head hurts..."never" is a matter of minutes, guess. Huh! Whodda thunk? Learn me something new everyday.

 

OK , the idea behind that statement is to look at it at another point of view, rather than saying it is forcing unwanted labor, which technically it is (granted), I'm saying look at it as, giving a nonparticipant child, a baby, an infant, a chance to live. Therefore making it into a willing labor. Why should anyone have the right to decide who lives, especially when it pertains to an innocent child

 

Oh, OK. Man, I'm really confused now, because I thought from placing "no forced labor" with "childbirth" from the perspective of a woman who doesn't want the rapist's child, you were just speaking "figuratively," and this dumbass just can't wrap his noodle around such advanced language. Now, and again, please go easy on me here, but it seems - and I say this cautiously, because I don't want to get trammelled, as I have so much here - it seems that you might be saying "making it into a willing labor." Which, uh, might be the opposite of unwilling to carry the child, or

Unless this is more figurative stuff.

 

i can play your game too

Some women choose to continue with the pregnancy. The American study found that about one third of the women who were pregnant from rape decided to continue with the pregnancy and keep the baby. A small number of women continued with the pregnancy and placed the child for adoption.

source http://health.act.gov.au/c/health?a=da&did=10082947&pid=1093913469

Mypoints are simple, Abortion kills innocent children, and thats not ok, regardless of the mothers condition. The mother had a chance of life, so should the child

 

I know that is true. And I'm afraid I have to ask - please tell me you didn't confuse my saying this, as the first portion of the logical proposition I laid out, for a statement as to what all women believe?

Let me walk it through, to help.

Your position is that all children must come to term, whatever the reason. This would include women who are raped.

I submitted my disagreement:

In response to my question to you:

You responded with:

Now, to me, a forced labor means the woman, by definition, is unwilling, or doesn't want the child. Hence, it seemed to me, we were discussing a logical scenario where a woman was not desirous of carrying a rapist's child to term., you said, "no, don't force her, but even though she doesn't want the child, it should nevertheless be given birth." I find that utterly nonsensical.

Let me just re-ask, cut to the chase, and hopefully we can both go away happy.

A woman is raped, and doesn't want to give birth to the child resulting from the rape. Should she have the right to an abortion?

Edited to add: I didn't see your edit:

Until now. So, after all this, all this facile back and forth over a presumption of rational debate, it just comes down to a man saying that what goes on in a woman's body, no matter what the mental or physical set of the woman is, is his domain. Unless

Is more of that figurative stuff 'n all.

I cannot agree with your worldview.