Boy do I hate copy-paste pirates.. Try again. I am not arguing facts, but the interpretations of the facts. Beside the fact I was pulled into your conversation because I didn't realize I was talking to you about mossadegh in the first place. Oh ya, I wasn't. You can copy paste 100 more pages if you want, not sure what you want to prove to me. Maybe you figured out ctrl-c lately? Maybe you should take your meds for your illness, we wouldn't want you to follow through with what the voices are telling you..
It's a non-issue because it does not quite fit with your abnormal view of reality. Could you imagine your outrage if Bush happened to have in one of his newsletters any of the content RP had in his newsletter, that were racist? i could, i could just see it now, i could imagine someone posting it's just a ghostwriter issue & then 9/11 troofers & other crazy RP'ers would be bitching about that poster & Bush being racist neo-cons.
Just as i thought. When i said that we had overthrown governments that were popularly elected and non violent to us you said to post facts. I usually reserve the Copy and paste to you and your buddy gtech. Now if you didnt want to respond about mossadegh then why did u respond by telling me that wikipedia wasnt a good source to read about facts. Obviously you did read it and you said you only argued its interretation of the facts. Now that i get it from your beloved cia website you are backtracking. This has everything to do with Ron Paul because he was the only one couragious enough to talk about this on national tv in front of the american people. This is why Ron Paul is for smaller government and non internevention. He is educated but hes also truthful and knows all about the history of our governments interference and meddling of other countries. Just admit the truth for once, it will be a very liberating experience. Since when does conservatism mean going to war and destroying democracies??????????? Toopac what you said made no sense at all. Its a huge issue and i explained it to browntwn. At least he is now probably reading up on this. We helped to overthrow a democratically elected leader of a country that is no hostile tiowards us and its a NON ISSUE in your eyes? This is the typical neoconic answer. When presented with cause and effect facts they call it a non issue and blow it off. Imagine if iran did to use what we did to them before and after and after. If those voices start sounding like your neocon buddies, they i will admit myself to the mental ward. My faculties are 100% there, the illness was a parasitic infection so im not a crazy neocon lol. Thank god You hate copy and paste pirates????????/ looooooooooooooooooooool So i take it that you hate gtechs posts also? Watch this folks as we go " MUMS THE WORD " again lol
Right, but that isn't an argument against it. It will address the financial problems, of that there is no doubt. I have yet to see a strong case for the economic advantage of war. Canada and the UK are not doing what RP want to do, unless you have a different idea about what RP wants to do, or you have some information on Canada and the UK that I am not aware of. Ok, so could you break this Canada and UK thing down? Because I honestly and genuinely want to understand it. No comment to this yet. Just reminding you. Btw, on the issue of killing all pigs, don't Jews also keep Kashrut and avoid pork, camel and rabbit? I'm pretty sure the Judaic and Islamic dietary laws are very, very similar.
You and your team (obviously the one in your head) - folks... lol Like I said I got pulled into it. You mentioned 'debunked' did you not? you are also the fool who believed what anthonycea said about me, in a year old thread that was revived. You have assumed too much, so you think you have a clue to who you talk to. When you say neocon - do you mean Jew? Not sure anymore what people mean since it seems to be a codeword for Jew amongst the antisemitics. As far as copy and paste, I am not aware of Gtech and his copy and paste whole articles into a post. Actually I think that DP has a rule against that. You are suppose to only post part of with a link to the actually article, I may be mistaken, but I would think it would be a courtesy to both the article owner and to us readers on the forum to do that. But somehow you will comment about me and gtech and some subject that I wasn't even involved with again or you will ramble on with those neocon (Jew) voices in your head about me. Not sure why you are so fascinated with me and why you want to keep pulling me into your conversations...
Canada is non-interventional - RP is non-interventional Not as ignorant as many here about the goals of islam. yes their dietary laws are similar, if not identical. Probably some differences.
No, Switzerland is non-interventionist. Canada is interventionist. They do foreign aid, they participate in NATO, and the UN Peace keeping force. IIRC, there are Canadian troops deployed in Afghanistan right now, and have been for several years. The Canadians do nation building, which is the opposite of what RP wants to do. It's really all moot though, because we're going broke. In another 10 years, we won't be able to fight if we wanted to. Or sadly, if we had to.
Yeah, but didn't I just refute your argument against prosperity and killing pigs? I'm guessing if I tried, I could probably refute the statement about killing dogs. If you're going to condemn Islam, find some good stuff to do it with. The argument against prosperity are the ones that bothered me the most, because the Islamic bank is a true community bank that operates without profit motive bereft of risk, but helps combine individual production for social gain. It's so elegant in it's design. Did you know that Muslims don't believe in loans to earn interest? Those who devour usury will not stand except as stands one whom the devil by his touch has driven to madness. That is because they say: Trade is like usury: but Allah has permitted trade and forbidden usury.... Allah will deprive usury of all blessing, but will give increase for deeds of charity, for He loves not any ungrateful sinner.... O you who believe, fear Allah and give up what remains of your demand for usury, if you are indeed believers. If you do it not, take notice of war from Allah and His messenger, but if you repent you shall have your capital sums; deal not unjustly, and you shall not be dealt with unjustly. And if the debtor is in difficulty, grant him time til it is easy for him to repay. But if you remit it by way of charity, that is best for you if you only knew. [Surah al Baqarah, verse 275-280 ].Islam places a pretty high value on zero interest trade and charity. That's how the Islamic banks work. Read the PRINCIPLES section of this page. It's fascinating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking .
There ya go again deflecting the arguement. Classic. No neocon doesnt mean jewish. Your good at everything but admitting your WRONG!!!!! Just say we overthrew a democracy in iran in 1953 and i wont bring it up anymore. A big man can admit your wrong. I dont remember what what anthonyca said in the year 1883 lol. Looks like debunked has been debunked yet again. maybe its gtechs turn to take over lololol. Prejudice will always show in the end.
from same wiki page: I find this part interesting as it always appeared to me to be a semantic argument. Many Muslims and non Muslims alike have opposed these Islamic banks, claiming that they do deal in interest but merely conceal it through legal tricks. Indeed, from an economic perspective, Islamic banks do compensate and charge for the time value of money, thus paying and receiving what is known in economics as interest. Such people compare Islamic banking to contractum trinius—a legal trick devised by European bankers and merchants during the Middle Ages, designed to facilitate the borrowing of money at a fixed rate of interest (something that the Church fiercely opposed) through combining three different contractual agreements that in and of themselves were not prohibited by the Church. While Islamic law prohibits the collection of interest, it does allow a seller to resell an item at a higher price than it was bought for, as long as there are clearly two transactions. These arguments and criticism are exactly the same as those used at the time of Muhammad. The Qur'an addresses this issue in simple terms, Interest is forbidden by Allah, while trade has been permitted by him: "Those who devour usury will not stand except as stand one whom the Evil one by his touch Hath driven to madness. That is because they say: "Trade is like usury," but Allah hath permitted trade and forbidden usury. Those who after receiving direction from their Lord, desist, shall be pardoned for the past; their case is for Allah (to judge); but those who repeat (The offence) are companions of the Fire: They will abide therein (for ever)." (Surah Baqarah 2:275) - http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html I see a contradiction between reality of Islamic banking and the prohibition against interest. To me it is simple economics. Interest, no matter how many machinations it goes though to make it something else, is still simply interest. Since it is not my religion, if Muslims are satisfied getting and paying interest under another name, so be it. But, from an economic point of view, people are not loaning money without being compensated. As Shakespeare said, "What’s in a name? that which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet"
Actually, whoever added that to the Wiki entry is incorrect. They are using the Labor value of Production, which was debunked by either Von Mises or FA Hayek. Maybe it was Rothbard. I can't remember. It's not interest, it's trade. Big difference. The return is not guaranteed, and the lender shares in the risk with the borrower. There is no compounding or penalty for late payments.
OK I will leave you and your voices to argue, because I wasn't arguing with anything. I am assuming this is like you entering that year old thread and continuing on with AC's ramblings aboout his TV evangelists what-not. You put my name in your post, I mistakenly let myself get drawn into it. I will let you argue with yourself, since I am not sure what you think I was saying. Here - you owned me.... LOL on what ??? I don't have a clue. Continue your (plural) discussion.
Are you and pingpong having a PM discussion? I wasn't arguing about prosperity at all. I mentioned pigs in a scenario and never mentioned dogs, unless I am that tired and didn't realize it. Again, you seem to be arguing with yourself. If you want to talk about islamic countries and prosperity you can start a thread about that and maybe I will join in or maybe not.
You were right about dogs though. I'm pretty tired myself, and GTech just showed up. Sheesh.. Btw, you are aware that there were Christians in Iraq under Saddam, and there is at least one Jew in the Iranian government? The ME hasn't been a non-stop genocidal bloodbath for the last 2,000 years. I mean, when the Crusaders arrived from Europe, they accidentally slaughtered some Jews because they looked and dressed just like Arabs. Israel is a different story today, but historically, these groups have lived amongst each other without constant bloodshed along religious lines.
More updates (not that it really matters, but since some are in denial...might as well milk it ) Hmm, copy/paste? Yes, that's a deep sin, punishable by a smite on the neck! Racism gets a pass. http://reason.com/blog/show/124339.html but he didn't say he did not WRITE those words. Hmm, I wonder why. More from the press release: He didn't edit it, but didn't say he didn't write it. Hmm, I wonder why. Let's see if he's said other things, over the years (besides the Houston Chronicle quotes): May 22, 1996 Dallas Morning News: There are a dozen or so excerpts, some of which Ron Paul is defending his comments. So we have the positions of: 1) The articles are not racist, he defended them, claimed they were taken out of context. 2) Later, suggested it was a ghostwriter, but wouldn't name him. 3) Claims he never saw them and didn't know about them, but now old news stories suggest otherwise. 4) Now claims someone else wrote them, many did, but has no idea who did. Will there be a new position tomorrow? Heh, and to think, some vilified GWB over a lone forged document that was quickly proven false, and to this day, still suggest that the story was true. Perhaps Lucy Ramirez was working for Ron Paul back then? What are the odds?
I've mostly ignored these claims of racism, especially seeing the source here as GTech who can go on the vicious attack on anyone with whom he disagrees. Having read the New Republic article, though, it was stunning. From my understanding of Paul's interview with Tim Russert, Paul didn't deny the existance of the writings but stated that they were often ghost written under his name. The examples of the writings I saw are truly hateful. His responsibility for their existance is significant. The number of years under which these writings were presented and the enormity of the hatred toward Blacks, Jews and Gays is astounding. I take back anything I said praising Paul. He is one wierd dangerous guy with horrendous views.
Keep in mind these 'examples' are tiny quotes taken from how many articles, over how long, during different times. I honestly do not see them being as 'hateful' as many are making them out ot be, if he wrote them or not. Do they look bad? Hell yeah they look bad, I wont deny that. Are they outright racist? IMO from what I have read so far, not even close.
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca My first reading on the subject. It was astonishingly hateful. The man has to deal with this in the main stream press and other direct interviewing.
Ahh yes but a hit piece is laid out to make the person being hit look as evil as possible. Taking a bit and piece here and there, from hundreds of articles that they can not even prove he wrote to make him look evil. All the while leaving out all the good articles he's written, his stances, his supporters, etc that make him look the exact opposite of 'hateful'
"When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to the product. For over a decade, I have publically taken moral responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my name." Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee Jesse Benton, 703-248-9115 He has allready given his explanation on it and this is good enough for me, I cant believe there are people that are really taking this stuff seriously since there are many african americans that are waking up to ron pauls message , plus there are a few rappers rapping about him. This is utterly rediculous. Anyone still rehashing this up is deserate or looking for a reason to bring him down, when in fact they should be focusing on the message that hes bringing about why so many of our soliders are dying in a war that was a lie from teh beginning and still a lie now. I cant believe the priorities of these neocons. My first focus is bringing our soldiers home from this lie of a war whick killed 400 soldiers and 150,000 iraqis , but shoot, i guess those numbers dont mean anything to anyone anymore do they.