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Work at home Moms exploited by MFA moguls

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by chant, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. #1
    If you read the Warrior forum then you may have seen a recent thread from an "underground article marketer" selling an ebook for $9.95. His book explains how people can find forums filled with writers that will produce 500 word articles for $3 that are of decent quality english. Judging from his responses he's selling quite a few of these ebooks. Here is the original thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=211712

    Essentially what this fellow is selling is a list of WAHM (work at home mother) websites. The would-be website mogul/slavedriver selects a WAHM website, registers a user account and then makes a post looking for Moms to write content for $3. Since most of the WAHM websites are geared for English-speaking readers the quality of the article writing is usually of higher spelling and grammatical standards than the $3 articles generated by non-English speaking writers. And since most WAHMs are not educated about the going rate for writing work and are looking to make any extra cash that they can the website mogul will often get more than a few interested individuals who start producing content for their made-for-Adsense websites.

    I have checked some WAHM websites and seen recently postings from moguls recruiting for these $3 article writing jobs as well as some replies from angry writers upset at what's going on. I haven't seen this new and ugly side of cheap content labor talked about here on DP.

    For any writers working for less than $3, are you starting to get the point yet? There will always be a tide of new content writers willing to work for slave wages unless you start to value yourself and the job. Don't work for peanuts because by the time that you realize that you're being used and want to increase your rate the next wave of new writers willing to work for peanuts will be among you. The MFA mogul won't hesitate for a moment in ditching you and finding a new keyboard slave to pay pennies to.
     
    chant, Jan 9, 2008 IP
  2. ARonald

    ARonald Peon

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    #2
    You have brought forward a very good point. Also it would be much better for people to publish articles in their own blogs/websites than write for people @ $3.

    The problem exists in our content creation forum (DP) as well. People are willing to write @ $3 per 500 words. It looks very merry when you set yourself a smaller target such as earning $50 but squeeze every ounce of creativity in you to make any reasonable amount writing @ that rate.

    I would not go on to blame a MFA mogul cause they offer pittance only because they find people working @ that rate.

    I'm from a third world country and believe me $3/article will not take me too far as far as surviving on that income goes.
     
    ARonald, Jan 9, 2008 IP
  3. chant

    chant Well-Known Member

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    #3
    I just used the term MFA mogul as a catch-all. Internet marketer, savvy businessman, whatever you want to call the person that does this, it doesn't matter. The end result is the same.

    Also I realize that what the MFA mogul is doing isn't illegal. However, it can be argued that they are taking advantage of the new writer's lack of understanding of the market and its going rates for content. And since this is a copywriting forum I think the primary focus is on viewing the whole market through the point of view as a writer, so why not cast a critical eye on this type of business method? The MFA moguls can go pat themselves on their backs on their forum. This one is for writers.

    What's even more diabolically evil or smart (take your pick) is that the mogul will purchase the articles for $3 apiece, place them on their MFA website and then sell the articles to other websites as content for sale. The mogul can easily recoup their initial outlay for the content this way, continue to collect Adsense or advertising revenue from the website and even sell it for a substantial profit on DP or one of the many other similar ebusiness boards.

    Again, there is nothing illegal about what the mogul is doing. Immoral, perhaps, but that depends on the way you see things. I'm just spreading the word about this so-called big secret to the writing community and to see what others have to say about it. But again, I don't think that there ever now come a time when there won't be new writers leaping at the chance to work for $3. The rise of computers and the internet means that there are more people than ever with keyboards and internet access, and these people are being told that they too are writers just because they know how to string together a sentence. Just like digital cameras is putting companies like Kodak out of business the proliferation of computers may be slowly eroding away the means for experienced copywriters to make their livings.
     
    chant, Jan 9, 2008 IP
    godofwriting likes this.
  4. rayaan

    rayaan Peon

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    #4
    I don't think $3 writers will ever eat into the market for experienced writers.

    WAHMs are one of the more exploited sections, simply because there are so many women who can't go out to work and need to make some quick cash while staying home with their kids. I guess they assume $3 per article is better than nothing.

    The sad part is no matter how much we get ourselves worked up about the injustice of it all, there will always be more WAHMs to replace the ones who ditch these slave labor gigs.:(
     
    rayaan, Jan 9, 2008 IP
  5. godofwriting

    godofwriting Banned

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    #5
    As chant says, you can call these "MFA" moguls 'enterprising' or 'evil' as your own standards permit but I personally feel kind of bad that so many people are being cheated out of their value just because they're oblivious to what they're actually worth. But of course, it's survival of the fittest; it's a competitive market... nobody really cares about whether or not you're getting what you deserve; it's your responsibility to keep yourself informed. Unfortunately, most novice writers are much too enthusiastic about landing a gig that they don't even care if they're devaluing themselves.

    So, I guess there really isn't much anybody can do about the fact that even if these WAHMs realize their potential, step out of their boxes, and stop working for pennies, there will come another crowd to replace them as the new batch of peanut-writers. Maybe, we, as writers, can step out and do some activism; get people to know that there is a good market out there with buyers willing to pay for quality but I doubt anyone will actually go that far to help others out...
     
    godofwriting, Jan 9, 2008 IP
  6. Colm O'Dwyer

    Colm O'Dwyer Peon

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    #6
    If two people are writing at the same level, but charge different fees; then using the cheaper of the two is just good business acumen, plain and simple.

    And the fact is, rightly or wrongly - Ethics doesn't grow a business, profit does.

    Study the Fortune 500 companies if you don't believe me.

    I'm not being a hard-lined cynic, I'm being a realist. And If you buy your groceries from a Wal-Mart or similar type store, then I think to disagree with this kind of "exploitative" outsourcing is to be a hypocrite.

    "Canis canem edit."

    Colm
     
    Colm O'Dwyer, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  7. bon300187

    bon300187 Peon

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    #7
    It's these rates that prevent many people from actually doing well because i'm from the UK so the price of living is quite high and getting off that first stepping stone of "cheap labour" can be a very difficult and daunting task.

    I have a few regular clients but I wouldn't want to risk losing them demanding more money and I know they are never going to offer more. But when the topic of pay is mentioned they often say I am the highest paid writer for them and they have other doing it for less.

    This means that writing is classed as my "part time job" or "hobby" because I wouldn't be able to live off of the wage i'm making from it.
     
    bon300187, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  8. webgal

    webgal Peon

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    #8
    Geez. I'd rather write for free than write for $3. I swear I think I'd still feel that way if I was living in a box.
     
    webgal, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  9. internetauthor

    internetauthor Peon

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    #9
    I've been over there to see what the fuss was about a few weeks ago when this topic was first mentioned. Most of the WAHMs are trying to boycott the $3 requests, but there are always those that still do it. They fight vehemently against raising rates or requesting more because they don't know how, are afraid of losing what work they do have, and don't want someone else taking "their" jobs. Until these ladies are willing to help themselves, it looks like the "savvy" webmasters have it made.

    Of course if the writers don't understand the marketplace well enough to market themselves correctly, I sincerely wonder what sort of material they are cranking out for pennies....

    Rebecca
     
    internetauthor, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  10. YoungSmeagol

    YoungSmeagol Well-Known Member

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    #10
    Are these native english speakers writing 500 word articles for $3?
     
    YoungSmeagol, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  11. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #11
    That's not entirely true. Bad ethics = bad image, and a bad image can kill a business as quickly as lacking profits (quicker actually). While it doesn't always catch up to every company equally, trust in a company is a huge factor in success. A lot of companies are simply ignorant of that fact until it's too late and they've permanently destroyed their reputation. Hell... in the content writing game alone, look at some of the largest content buyers (the big networks like About.com and Suite101), and the reputation they have in the writing community for the most part... not good. About, as an example, might be doing just fine financially... but they'd be doing enormously better if hoards of people didn't boycott them because of they way they've treated their writers, and the image they got because of overloading their sites with ads. Image definitely affects the bottom line.
     
    jhmattern, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  12. tateote

    tateote Peon

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    #12
    i guess they've removed the topic as i cannot get to that thread!
     
    tateote, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  13. YoungSmeagol

    YoungSmeagol Well-Known Member

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    #13
    You are talking about a real business. These guys make Made For Adsense sites. Those cheap writers are replacing automatic blogs and bots.
     
    YoungSmeagol, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  14. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #14
    Didn't the OP already say the MFA classification was a bit of an over-generalization? Sorry if I misunderstood that. But frankly, how do you think those huge content networks are making their money? Quite a bit from Adsense. They buy cheap content to profit from the advertising. Whether they like it or not, it's essentially the same business model.. giving it big name backing doesn't make it any better. ;)
     
    jhmattern, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  15. Colm O'Dwyer

    Colm O'Dwyer Peon

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    #15
    I'm sure you know the business much better than I; but this sounds like an opinion as opposed to a fact, do you know for sure that About would be better off if they treated their writers any better?

    There's no denying that image has an effect on the bottom line; but it's whether or not the effect is sufficient enough to cancel out the extra profits made from using kids in a 3rd world country to produce a product, versus using adult workers in a developed world.

    The fact is; we the public want faster, bigger, better and cheaper; and so are able to ethically turn a blind eye to "exploitation" for what is deemed as a fair reward.

    Back on track, I'm not sure these webmasters are in any danger of developing a bad image - They're simply outsourcing at the going rate, and unless their websites are geared towards writer's, I doubt they'll have any visitors that care one way or the other at what the content they're reading cost, as long as it's useful to them.

    Colm
     
    Colm O'Dwyer, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  16. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #16
    I didn't say it's "just" about how they treated their writers, but about their overall image, which is why I mentioned the ads issue. And saying they'd be better off as a content business with more visitors if they weren't doing things causing people to boycott them isn't just opinion... it's common sense. It's not the kind of boycott where they're going to get more exposure and more traffic, like some companies might experience with things like product boycotts. While they've improved the ad issue a little bit since I was with the company, they haven't done anything to improve that image, and it still costs them traffic. The point is that while yes, profit can obviously make or break a business, what a lot of people don't understand is that your image can directly affect that profit (both positively and negatively), whether you make your money from traffic, sales, etc.

    I can see your last point, IF the content they're getting his high quality, and if they can get it consistently. A lot of them don't... to save money, they don't hire quality writers, and they end up with drivel that even an average reader won't stomach. I think that the original mistake here is (based on the original post) assuming a WAHM in the US will turn out high quality content. That seems a bit presumptuous to me actually... there are plenty of "writers" in the US that can't write to save their lives.

    I'm past the point of throwing sympathy on writers who don't know enough to charge what they're worth, because frankly there are enough of us out there very publicly trying to help them figure it out. There's really no excuse anymore for anyone not to do the research before getting into business (freelancing or otherwise). The biggest issues the webmasters need to worry about on the image front are consistency and trust. If they constantly have to change writers, it can be obvious to regular readers, and doesn't demonstrate stability (it might not matter in some niches, but when you have people targeting things like finance, health, etc., it certainly can). And let's face it... even if your primary goal is simply using Adsense to monetize articles, you'll be better off gaining that trust so people keep coming back to new articles (not to mention that when people find good content, they have a habit of spreading the word for you - free marketing never hurts!).

    Another factor they need to consider is the fact that it usually costs more to have to constantly invest time and money in recruiting new people that meet your quality standards (if they do have significant quality standards) than it does to simply pay a little more to keep regular writers that can develop their own following (also given that when writers can take pride in their work, they have the tendency to promote it themselves, which is an added bonus to the company hiring them).

    That doesn't mean every webmaster has to pay top rates... only that there are other things to think about that do affect their traffic, links, other promotion, and profits that might make even a $10 / article writer much more cost-effective in the long run than a $5 / article writer. :)
     
    jhmattern, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  17. latoya

    latoya Active Member

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    #17
    Sounds like a mutually beneficial relationship to me. Webmasters have a demand for low-priced content and WAHMs have a demand for easy money. If they're making each other happy, what's the problem?

    The information is out there for the taking. WAHMs, or anyone else who's interested in freelancing, can find out about the freelance writing job market just as easily as they can find $3 writing jobs.

    Whether these writers are being exploited or not is really up for debate. If a writer can make minimum wage from $3 articles, can anyone say they're being taken advantage of?
     
    latoya, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  18. chant

    chant Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Really? So a stay-at-home mom's writing quality is as good as a professional writer's? That's your opinion. Does it make good business sense to always go with the cheaper writer? Only if the cost of your project and its effect on your profit margin is your bottom line.

    I've bought enough cheap crap in my life to know the usual rule is this: if it's cheap, it's almost always cheap for a reason and it's got nothing to do with its quality.

    The realist mode of operations only gets you so far. When the bottom line affects your business and your income suddenly being a realist doesn't seem like such a good place to stand. The law of the jungle only works when you're at the top of the food chain and that's a hard place to maintain dominance of throughout your life.

    For the record I don't shop at Walmart. Besides the fact that I don't need a 4 gallon jug of pickles I don't like their business practices. And if your rationale for criticizing MFA moguls is that you shouldn't do that if you shop at Walmart, that's not being a realist at all. That's being silly.
     
    chant, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  19. littlewhiteebook

    littlewhiteebook Peon

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    #19
    Wow - that's pretty terrible.

    I used to have a client that I wrote articles for via eLance - $25/article. He was one of the "gurus" and a really nice guy - when he got a great reaction from an article in a newsletter, he actually "tipped" me. Once day I got a wake-up call from listening to one of his seminars ( I basically listened to his seminars then would write 5 articles from them) He was talking about the relative low expense (& high value) of outsourcing and how writers were making him millions - and he paid them a tiny fraction of that. He basically said he wished he could tell them to wise up and either change their rates or write ebooks, but he didn't want to lose them :)

    I doubled my rate on the last project. And last year I wrote an ebook.

    3.00 an article is decent for a writer in India - for a struggling mom, it's a pittance. (Maybe $9/hour an hour, tops - and then there's PayPal fees, etc...)

    I outsource some of my work at $10 for 400 word article to a newbie freelancer. She's really happy with that, but I always feel a twinge of guilt and have ended up paying more than she asked. I can't wait till I have the money and resources to pay what I would want to make!

    I don't know if it's really exploitation, but I can't imaging the quality of the articles. Or the stress of being part of one of these "content mills" that seem to be popping up on the net.

    Back in the day, when I first began freelancing, there was a company called writeforcash that paid 5$ an article minimum. I would sit there for hours writing and submitting - but when I look at the articles I wrote for them, they were worth about 5$. It was all fluff.

    To each his or her own. There are some good companies out there with good clients.
     
    littlewhiteebook, Jan 10, 2008 IP
  20. Colm O'Dwyer

    Colm O'Dwyer Peon

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    #20
    Let me reiterate with emphasis -> If two people are writing at the SAME LEVEL, but charge different fees; then using the cheaper of the two is just good business acumen, plain and simple.

    I would disagree; I think price does represent quality, not always but quite often.

    We're talking about business here guys; and you can boohoo all you want about working moms, but it's up to them to wisen up, get better, read a marketing book or two and work like a dog.

    If they want to get paid more then there's nothing stopping them; except maybe being a bit naive... And sticking up for them and saying they are being exploited and should get paid more (for what?) isn't doing them any favours.

    Colm
     
    Colm O'Dwyer, Jan 11, 2008 IP