Universal Healthcare - Where you getting the $$ from?

no, because google will then ban the pages for spamming....



National healthcare is a horrible idea...it will never work. Medicare and Medicaid do not work now...again, get rid of the trial lawyers like John Edwards and that will solve a majority of the problems.

 

The US governmenr spends billions for public schools, roads, mass transit, sports stadiums and airports. Universal Healthcare will work. But you need to create a new system one step at a time.

The first step is to educate more doctors and reform the malpractice system.

 

iul, you cannot just throw money at a problem.. my experience with health problems validates that fact. medical doctors are in the complete wrong direction as a whole. i have helped myself by educating myself on true health and how the human body is supposed to work.

God didn't create you to take a blasted pill for the rest of your life, where does prozac grow in the earth? you are what you eat. if you eat and digest synthetic substance, you will become synthetic substance. which isn't a problem for me, let the fools suffer and slowly die, i'll be in good health for as long as i live.

 

The problem with any large bureaucracies are this,

1) Inefficiency is rewarded with more funding
2) Centralized control is one stop shopping for lobbyists
3) Federal Departments create their own rules and guidelines to operate under, without review by the Congress or the people who pay taxes
4) Service levels are homogenized

When healthcare is free, some people will abuse it (stressing resources and lowering overall ROI), and only those working will pay for it. At one point, service and cost will plateau, and every additional abuse will erode the system, bit by bit, until overall care is lowered, or the cost rises beyond what would be a reasonable free market price. We're already seeing this with Medicaid and Medicare.

Sound familiar? It's the model of a communist system.

But we're smarter than that in the West. Not everyone has equal needs, and not everyone should pay equal costs for access.

The only truly fair system is the free market. You pay for what you use, and resources are allocated based on demand, not mandate. Unlike what the government did by trying to mandate home ownership that precipitated the housing crisis. People who had no business owning a home, got one.

You'll see the same thing with people getting medical service that cannot afford it, because they choose not to work, or work part time. The "poor" are not only those who have had poor luck or bad draws in the lottery of life, it also consists of free loaders, and underachievers.

 

Of course you can't just throw money at health problems and expect all of them to just go away. I didn't suggest otherwise. What I suggest is that everyone shoul be able to have acces to healthcare when they need it and the profiteers (insurance companyes in this case) should be removed from the system

what does that have to do with a healthcare system or another?

 

uh because that's an example of how it's being run? believe it or not, this isn't a funny cute system where you visit the "doc" and he really tries to find a cure for you. their goal is for you to revisit as many times as you can.

it's about money, not helping people. people go to medical school these days usually because they think they're smart and have an ego rather than to actually help people. there are no real allopathic cures available, i'd say that's evident that i am right so far.

 

1. the profits the insurance companies now have would surely cover any inefficiency problems
2.I think lobbying should be banned altogether and as far as I know here in Romania it is banned.
3. I don't know anything about that
4. what exactly do you mean?

any system will be abused one way or another. The most important thing is to have a system that will provide the most benefits for a certain cost

there is no such a thing as a "truly fair system". Everything has it's flawes and imperfections.

how about children? How is it their fault if their parents don't work? What blame could those children possibly have? Should they be denied the access to healthcare? Again, what fault do they have? How about those who can't earn enough money to buy health insurance? How about those that actually can't work? how about old people?

well then why are you so supportive of the system you now have in your country?

1. Everything is for money. That's why people who can't get access to basic needs such as healthcare should be helped. Otherwise you end up with disgusting acts suchs as patient dumping

2. I have no ideea what an allopathic cure is.

 

The current employer based healthcare system does not work.

The 31 reason for hiring illegal aliens, more US factories offshore or outsourcing is health care costs.

Any way you look at it if a minimum wage worker making $6 an hour needs healthcare the government will end up picking up the tab.

 

because it's the lesser of 2 evils. if you think it's bad now, just wait till the government gets its greedy little hands on it. if we start limiting government, and use common sense again - people might start taking responsibility for themselves and educate themselves about good health and achieving it.

www.curezone.com <--- you could learn 10x more there than at any medschool. what do you learn at medschool? what pill to shove down someone's throat when they come pleading for help to the doctor.


if i had it my way, trust me things would be different. there wouldn't be people who profit off of illness, because everyone would be educated on how to help themselves. we should learn how to take care of ourselves. but in fact, that is what i plan on doing later in life - teaching people to do just that.

 

how come the european healthcare public systems work? What makes you think you're not capable of achieveing what the french or the italians achieved?

I don't know about medical school, I've never been there, I do agree people should be educated about leading a healthyer life

oh great, your system is perfect! we won't even need a healthcare system, people will just perform spine surgery on themselfs after you're done with your education program

 

also, it is the government that has restricted a lot of these cures. if it were truly free market, the system would be better. the FDGAY shuns anything that isn't from the pharma or drug wing.

they are just that a food AND drug administration, they want to make sure there are drugs in your food and make drugs your food. there have been various "cures" for cancers or other ailments and the scientists were imprisoned, one developing a cure for cancer who was later killed and William Reich, a scientist studying positive/negative and life energy (orgone) was later thrown in jail to rot.

there is no incentive in science, you are a sheep. don't speak out against global warming, don't speak out against the current health care - or you'll end up like the rest. good fear tactic that always works.

 

Right, so the answer is we replace profit with inefficiency.

3. Our federal departments create their own working structure and guidelines, this is out of control of the Congress (Parliament).

4. Under a socialized health care system, care is one level of service. You can't buy better care. What you get, is what you get. Good, bad or otherwise.

Then you want a free market.

It all depends on your definition of fair. Fair to whom? The young entrepreneur who works 18 hour days, forgoes starting a family and runs an efficient profitable business, has to subsidize people who work less, do less, contribute less in such a system. I don't call that fair.

When we remove the human imperative, the incentive to improve our lot, by re-distributing wealth, you get the same ugliness they had in the USSR. And the only way to control that level of social discontent is fear and tyranny.

How is it my fault?

None, but their parents do. Criminal blame.

No one is talking about denying them access. How did poor children in America get healthcare prior to any government mandates?

Have you ever heard of charity? We sent $10 billion to Pakistan. We're spending $1 trillion on a war against fear. If that money was in the hands of taxpayers, do you honestly have so myopic a view of humanity to think that no one would help their fellow man?

I gave almost all of my money to my family in a medical emergency. I did it because I answer to my conscience. To think we won't have any humanity unless the government passes a law enforcing it, is asinine.

That's the same kind of thinking that follows from Christians getting their morals from the Bible, implying that if you are atheist, you lack any moral foundation. It's simply ridiculous.

 

that's another problem, is ignorance. once you get past that stage you become willing to learn. no i don't teach spine surgery, i'm talking about preventative measures.

if you live a healthy life, you won't end up with fcked up bones and you won't have cancer.

if someone gets in a wreck, yeah ofcourse they should go to the hospital or wherever and get treated.. i'm talking about illnesses.

 

Nope I do not have insurance, nor does my family. I however do spend plenty every year to make sure illegal immigrants have health care, education, and other mics services I nor my family can not get.

 

if more people will get acces to healthcare then yes

false ! You can go to private healthcare providers. Those exist in countries with public healthcare systems too.

nope, I want a system where everyone gets access to the healthcare they need

I see nothing wrong in that. That how a society is supposed to work. The richer people help the poorer people.

let's not get carryed away there shall we? I didn't suggest removing redistributing of walth. But I think the difference between the rich and the poor should be smaller and that can be achieved by taxing the rich more

it's not. But what are you suggesting? Should we let kids die of treatable diseases because their parents are idiots?

true, but again, should we let the kids die?

I don't know, I haven't read anything about it

no, I'm not saying no one would help a fellow man. I'm saying many people would still remain without help. I best most of that trillion dollars would have been spent on all sort crap people don't really need if it was in taxpayers hands. Oh, and as far as I know that trillion wasn't from the taxpayers but from the chinese

of course there is humanity even without the law enforcing it but you still have patients thrown on the streets because they can't pay the hospital, and people being denied to healthcare by their insurance companyes for all sort of crappy reasons such as "preexistent conditions"


Our differences of opinion are probably caused by the differences in the places we live in. I'm practicly surrounded by powerty and people struggling to earn a decent living (even though I live in the "rich" part of the country) and I realise most of them wouldn't be able to get access even to basic health treatments if there wasn't a public healthcare system

 

So we are shooting for quantity, not quality. ok.

But private healthcare is more expensive, because the market is smaller, so there is no economy of scale.

Why don't you just start a business or a charity to help people?

Taxing the rich more, is redistributing the wealth. You take from the wealthy and give to the poor. That's socialism.

Read about it. You're talking about extreme circumstances where children die. This is an affluent nation. We're not all living out in a forest or in a desert with no infrastructure or capacity.

Assumptions.

That's only because we no longer operate charity hospitals.

The only way to truly help them, is to get them a better economy, better jobs, better education and better living conditions. And for all of those things, they need opportunity, not government handouts.

I know I come off as not being compassionate, but nothing could be further from the truth. If you PM'd me and asked for money to help a relative, I might be inclined to help you, provided I had the money, but I don't because I am taxed to the brink, and inflation eats my savings up.

Everything has a cost. You have to go deeper into the problem and ask, how are we paying for this solution?

 

IMHO get the US in shape, start eating healthier, start getting off the damn sofa once in awhile and we as a nation will be healthier and not needing to go to the doc as much!

 

agreed grim

 

A couple hundred bucks?

How will we pay for it? If someone is not working, and goes to the Doctor 3 times a week, how are we going to pay for that? Who pays for it?

Where does this money come from? They aren't contributing to the system, and yet they may be using it 3 or 6 or 9 times as much as someone who is paying into the system.