Hitler Lost the War Because He Was a Drug Addict

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by diex, Dec 3, 2007.

  1. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #101
    I think a growing lack of resources drove him into Russia.. I doubt his drug addiction had much of anything to do with his ultimate goals... Desperation caused more mistakes than drugs IMO..
     
    Mia, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  2. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #102
    Definitely. The other war powers were Adolph (a national socialist), Joseph (an international socialist), Hirohito (what could be more collectivist than the entire nation being your property?), and Winston (who was forced to use every weapon of influence in his possession to convince his people to fight).

    In some ways, I am happier with the situation we have now -- where our press is more sympathetic to our nations enemies than to our own countrymen.

    I overstated the poor bit. Monty's dad was an Irish priest, but did become a Bishop when Monty was rather young. Not being a Catholic, I'm not sure how well that pays? With eight brothers and sisters, the pound had to go pretty far.

    I wonder if perhaps Monty's mannerisms were more related to his professional training at Sandhurst and afterwards?
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  3. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #103
    The lack of resources evinces both a lack of planning and a lack of self-control.

    The desperation was a result of both of those combined with a lack of professional training as a military strategist.

    Germany could have won a smaller war and consolidated it's victories. It could then have, in another generation, achieved all of it's WWII goals.

    However, Hitler was a politician by profession. His ego drove him to micro-manage one of the worlds best armies into total defeat.

    He was the LBJ of his day.
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  4. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #104
    Excellent post Will.. That pretty much defines him in a nutshell.. He was a good speaker, and did have military experience, but only as a infantrymen. Had he let his Generals run the war, and as you said, limited himself to smaller victories, in time, he probably would have achieved his goals.

    With Russia, he could have simply left them alone until everything else was won. They did have a pact after all. Breaking that non-aggression pact was part and parcel to the eventual downfall.

    Had he just left it alone, who knows.. It might have been Germany and Russia as the two superpowers...
     
    Mia, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  5. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #105
    One case of Hitler's drug addiction that cost the German's dearly was on D-day. Hitler was asleep and couldn't be woken.

    The 21st Panzer division had been ordered by Rommel to advance to the beaches and were in position to drive allied forces into the sea. However, the 21st was forced to withdraw due to fact its flank was only protected by a weak screen from its anti-tank battalion.

    I believe the Hitler's decision to start the war was based on the fact the German military buildup had peaked in 1938 and every day the French and English were getting stronger. By late 1940 the allies would have had the advantage and Germans predicted that they would need until 1944 to regain the advantage.

    It appears that Hitler was attempting to use this advantage while he still had it and marched into Pargue. Czechoslaovakia was a mistake. The Germans gave up their moral authority in regard to ethnic German rights. The English were willing to make concessions in regards to Danzig and West Prussia and as a result of the invasion of Czechoslaovakia refused to make any further concessions.

    The French aviation industry (with modest assistance--about 15 percent-from American and Dutch producers) had produced enough modern combat aircraft (4360) by May 1940 to defeat the Luftwaffe, which fielded a force of 3270

    The French planes were comparable in combat capability and performance to the German aircraft.

    By May 1940, French manufacturers were producing 619 combat aircraft per month, American firms were adding 170 per month against French orders, and the British were producing 392 fighters per month. German production of combat aircraft, averaging 622 per month during 1940

    http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1985/sep-oct/kirkland.html
     
    bogart, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  6. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #106
    I classify that as a management failure. The Fuhrer shouldn't be making those typed of decisions. He should be settings goals and letting his SME's (Subject Matter Experts) determine how to achieve them.

    The Fuhrer, like Ronald Reagan, should be able to sleep through almost any emergency. :D

    Hitler had to move east for fuel. His Soviet allies just weren't meeting his fuel needs, due largely to incompetent Soviet management.

    Had Hitler taken the oil fields and then stopped, he likely would have been able to re-negotiate a settlement with Stalin -- or at least create a military stalemate.

    On the other front, if the U.S. had not entered the war, Hitler would likely have been able to isolate Great Britain and rule Europe as a land power. He would not need to have made an official peace on this front either, he could have gotten by with a much slower conflict -- a cold war.

    I am not disputing Adolph's decision to start the war when he did, I am disputing his numerous decisions to initiate and enlarge each campaign when it was not wise from the standpoint of military logistics. 1938 was fine. Even 1941 was survivable, until December. After that, he was like the monkey with it's hand stuck in the bottle.
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  7. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #107
    Ah, just read up on him - his dad was an Anglo-Irish Anglican priest. Sociologically, it does paint a bit of a different picture.
     
    northpointaiki, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  8. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #108
    I couldn't find any more info on Monty but I'm thing he was Scotch-Irish

    Montgomery graduated from the Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst, in 1908 so he did actually have an elitist background.
     
    bogart, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  9. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #109
    The funny thing is that Hitler's ally Italy controlled reserves of 39 billion barrels in Lybia.
     
    bogart, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  10. N_F_S

    N_F_S Active Member

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    #110
    Napoleon & Hitler's mistake was to take the whole Europe, not just by parts, funny that both finished at stage called Russia :) I cannot imagine what would have happen if Germany would win and Russian territory was taken. Probably I would be living in Germany now, another scenario is that they would continue this war with the rest - US, Britain, etc., but having a huge territory and resourses for it.

    People who are saying that winter helped Russia are so wrong and narrow minded, what about summer, spring? It was 4 years, not just 1 winter. In summer it can be up to 35 C in Moscow, up to 40 on South Russia.
     
    N_F_S, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  11. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #111
    Until the Yanks and the Limeys came to town... :D

    Weren't the Italians almost completely unable to get that oil out of the ground?
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  12. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #112
    Probably.. We were too busy growing garlic.. ;)

    My grandfather was in the Italian Navy in WWII.. He hated the Nazi's and Fascism so much he joined the US Army and became a spy with the OSS..

    Italians are much better at squeezing oil out of olives IMO.. ;)
     
    Mia, Dec 21, 2007 IP
  13. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #113
    Both Germany and France were defeated by a two front war.

    The Germans won the war on the eastern front in WW1 and lost the war.

    One of the great advantages of the Russians was heavy manufacturing. In Chelyabinsk, which became known as "Tankograd" (Tank City) the Russians produced over 600 tanks a month by 1944. The factory was set up in only 33 days.
     
    bogart, Dec 22, 2007 IP
  14. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #114
    Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that the U.S. Army Air Corps wasn't bombing the hell out of the Soviet factories? :cool:
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 22, 2007 IP
  15. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #115
    The B-17s , B-24s, and B-29s would have done a number on them.
     
    bogart, Dec 22, 2007 IP
  16. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #116
    I can't imagine the hell that both the combatants and non-combatants on all sides faced in that conflict.

    Try to imagine living in London for those 57 nights in 1941, or in Dresden for those three days in 1945.

    I don't have the words to describe the terror they must have felt. War is hell.
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 22, 2007 IP
  17. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #117
    Didn't Sherman say that "War is Hell" before he ordered Atlanta burnt to the ground?
     
    bogart, Dec 22, 2007 IP
  18. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #118
    Sort of. Gen. Sherman actually had the good sense to say that after the war. It was part of a speech he made in 1879 to the graduating class of the Michigan Military Academy.

    Sherman made similar statements before the war. During the war, he talked less and burned more.

    Sherman didn't want the war, but when the war came he prosecuted it without mercy. Sherman really understood the nature of warfare and what it would take to defeat an enemy as stubborn as the American South.

    Roosevelt followed Sherman's principles when he announced that we would not make peace with our enemies and that we would only accept unconditional surrender. Truman followed Sherman's principles when he bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Today, I'm not sure that anyone in our culture has the moral fortitude to follow Sherman's principles of war.
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 23, 2007 IP
  19. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #119
    There was a lot of anti-war protest during the American civil war and plenty of draft riots in New York.

    I think that Shermans motives in burning Atlanta were political. It basically showed that the South was defeated and took a lot of support away from the anti-war candidate McCellan. Everyone loves a winner.

    Kind of like Hitler. When he was winning he managed to find a lot of friends.
     
    bogart, Dec 23, 2007 IP
  20. tushardhoot1

    tushardhoot1 Active Member

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    #120
    Of course Hitler wasn't high on drugs. He was just really, really cruel.
     
    tushardhoot1, Dec 23, 2007 IP