I do not claim moral superiority whatsoever to most folks. On the other hand, being called a douchebag on the basis of my beliefs is a bit of an offense when issued from a guy who believes blacks look like apes, who believes, based on "his own research" that blacks are less intelligent as a race than other races, who supports laws that punish rape victims, who has the balls to say that a rape victim essentially "asked for it" by drawing "the wrong kind of guy," who doesn't have a problem murdering folks from his own view of "frontier justice," among countless other examples. As to this atheist's "spiritual" experiences, I will say that I consider true art, in all its forms, to be one of the most ennobling endeavours we species, stretched as we are between earth and empyrean - between the muck of primordial unconscious and the ecstacies of high thought and art, can do. In other words, my spirituality comes from empathy on listening to Beethoven's 9th; seeing the Impressionist collection at the Art Institute; chorales from the Baltics (hey, hanz?); An empty black sky, with a brilliant lunar coruscation that I know millenia of my forebears have marvelled at; all these things bring me "home." Might just be me, and I'd say the pot shouldn't call the kettle black, but I know that would only wig you out. I do not claim moral superiority to most folks, but to you, who had the temerity to call me and others "douchebags" out of hand, damn straight.
I don't believe it's clear what atheist's think about Jesus. I am a 'devout' atheist and therefore it's clear to me (but of course not to those with religous beliefs) that the concept of Jesus cannot be what Christian's tell me. I know it's a cliche (I can't find that twiddly line for the 'e'), and I haven't read the Bible, but let's take the old sayings of Jesus 'turned water into wine', or he 'walked on water'. Because he was a human being, he cannot have 'magical powers' - that is undeniable. Therefore, as an atheist I believe one of 3 things about Jesus: 1. Jesus never existed (historical records I haven't studied may prove me wrong here). 2. People who wrote historical records lied about what Jesus really did. 3. Jesus was a magician.
Hmmmm, trying to answer this question without REALLY offending some people is hard. I have to say I have never admired Jesus. I've never seen his sacrifices as truly selfless as people make them out to be (if he really existed, etc. in the first place). I've always thought of the whole thing like a business transcation: "I've done something for you, now what are you going to do for me?" kind of thing. Shows he's human, but not truly a selfless act. What's to admire about that???
Interesting point, Firegirl, and I do agree with you here. Aside from my beliefs regarding the divine, one of the reasons I don't accept the judeo-christian-muslim ethos of a retributive or "selfish" god requiring obedience "or else," was due to this kind of anthropomorphic deity, and I can't help recalling Voltaire's quip on the same. One of the reasons I was drawn to buddhism, I think, was its notion that selflessness, regardless of any payout in some "won" hereafter is, in fact, salvation in the here and now. Whether atheist or deist, a way of life that means freedom here, by one's efforts alone. But I do think there are beautiful things in the life of Christ that were not there before. Among them, truth, and falsehood, lies in the heart and not in outward behavior; a revolutionary thing.
You can stop right there because you know and I know I never wrote anything like that so therefore you are a liar and everything that follows that lie can be excluded because of your dishonesty. Didn't I say you were an exception and excluded you from the douchebag atheists?
Interesting point, and I see clearly what you mean. I too have wondered this. Although, early man was very greedy, aggressive and violent. I believe that during these early days man fought for territory and food, which is natural selection in action. We have yet to become extinct. Therefore it is natural for us to do these things, why stop them? To an extent our laws reflect our basic instincts, but most of our laws do not. Take drugs and other questionable prohibitions, they curb our liberties, they don't reflect nature.
Uh, TWalker, you are aware the quotes that I posted are on this board, right? That it is easy enough for anyone to see I posted only your words, not mine? If you are ashamed of posting such things, I'd say that's a good start. But don't call me a liar. As to calling me, or anyone else a douchebag, I'd suggest you don't do that either.
I think it depends what you consider to be the unit of natural selection, and there is some debate amongst scientists about what this is. In other words, are we talking about what is best for the individual, or what is best for the society as a whole? If doing the best thing for yourself and your immediate offspring were the best thing then we would all sit idly by whilst our neighbour's children were set upon by wolves or drowned in ponds. We don't do this, because it's not in the best interests of society as a whole for everyone to act selfishly. Laws seem to be far too complicated to have any bearing on evolution, but a lot of them are down to promoting the harmony, prosperity and survival of a group of people. So I see them as fitting in with natural selection just as much as our more basic urges do.
why would anyone admire or dislike his life? only hindus can do that. why don't you ask hindus what they really think about jesus birth?
Jesus died a long time ago. I know it's hard to accept.. but... *sucks teeth* get over it. He aint coming back.
Nah... it's all that peace and love crap. Seriously, Jesus advocated that weakness was better than strength and that suffering was morally superior to taking the power to fix things right here on Earth. Nietzsche was right, Christianity is a religion of under-men. The only thing worse is that crazy religion of caravan robbers which we aren't allowed to mention anymore.
In the dead sea scrolls, which the church has been attempting to supress, jesus is mentioned leading revolution, meaning he was a warrior as well as a spiritual man... Also, John Allegro, one of the researchers sent to translate the scrolls wrote a whole book about how jesus was part of a mushroom eating group that used psychedelic mushrooms to experience god. So there is more to the story then meets the eyes.