I couldn’t resist. You have heard the saying, "There are no atheist in a foxhole". I have always wondered just what an atheist might have to say to someone who is sitting on death row and facing his execution. Someone that through their own psychological process is dealing with feelings of regret, hopelessness, pain and remorse. Certainly a Christian or other religious could draw on a rich history of inspiration. It seems to me that an atheist can bring nothing to the table here. Short of bringing a book on physiology and psychology to the cell, I’m not certain how an atheist can deal with these types of “feelings†as they generally attribute no real value to “feelings†at all. I know they are viewed as a human reaction and are useful human function, but lets face it, sterile explanations for intense existential experience are meaningless. I understand that Atheism does not attempt to offer recipes or solutions to this type of scenario and that is precisely why in my humble opinion it falls short in appreciating the intense nature of the human condition. Simple explanations for complex problems. I think its incredibly easy to believe “there is no Godâ€. Isn’t it obvious?
Wow, so basically because I don't believe in God, or your God, I have no understanding what feelings are, or I can't appreciate what makes humans "human"? I guess that's not ANGER I'm feeling right now then???? Again, someone who can only see one side of things. But hey, I'm not here to criticize you like you can do others because I believe whatever thoughts/beliefs can get you through the day and make you feel "all warm and fuzzy" is alright for you.... It cracks me up though, that you believe in a religion that basically states there is only one true person that can judge, but you continually insist on trying to do his job????
That's why generally you see more atheists and non-believers are not in support of the death penalty than other religious groups. (source) As cute as Huckabee was trying to be with his Jesus joke in the last debate, he avoided the question of whether Jesus would support the death penalty. The bottom line is that most Christians are the ones calling for a death penalty, so it's only fitting that they would be able to comfort somebody in those final hours. Hell, you want to kill him, it's only fitting that you'd be able to help him out the door of life. But people like myself? Atheists (can't speak for all of them, but I'd assume most)? Hell, even my political candidate, Ron Paul? We see no possible way to justify government taking a human's life. I personally would not be comforting the killer, I'd be chastising him, telling him that even though I personally don't support it, his punishment is fitting for the actions he took taking innocent life or lives. There really isn't much to say or feelings to understand for a killer on death row. You killed people, you cut short the only thing they had, their lives (atheist view, at least), and now the favor is being returned.
I'm for the death penalty personally BECAUSE of my Atheism I think. I don't believe in this wonderful existance after death, I just believe you die and it's like going to sleep and never waking up. It's done, no second chances, no suprise vacations to Heaven or Hell, etc. Because of that, the taking of an innocent human life is the worst offense and therefore punishable by not allowing the offender to enjoy the rest of theirs..... But, that doesn't make me a cold-hearted bit** either. I could console this person on death row just as well as a religious person could. And just because I'm Atheist doesn't mean I can't feel the pain that the offenders' family will suffer, the victims' family will suffer, etc. The death penalty is still taking a life which still should be done in a respectful manner to minimize the pain felt by ALL innocent parties involved.....
Did you even read the post? Or do you alway just imagine a stereotype when you "feel" you are being attacked? Are you 13 or is being lame just 2nd nature? Just wondering. It was a genuine post, I guess you were looking for fodder. Oh WOW, wait.. I must be pissed.
Why do people always come back with "are you 13"? Why do insults always have to be thrown? I did read your post and I do feel it was appropriate to respond to your implication that Atheists aren't human and can't feel emotion. I think that's just unreasonable. Why the need to attack others you don't understand? If you religion and beliefs works for you, great, but that certainly does not give you the right to call others inhuman and insensitive because we don't believe exactly what you do....... LOL, and in case you didn't know, only gray rep can be given away in this section...so trying to red rep me for an opinion here is worthless.....
you have some serious misconceptions about atheists dude. just because we don't believe in god it doesn't mean we don't give value to feelings
Actually, I'd have to say, to me, it's quite the opposite. To be an atheist is to avoid simple explanations for complex problems and to seek to understand life, and death, in all its complexity. Of course, religion provides comfort to a dying person, if that is the comfort they seek, believing this wondrous thing - "self" - will continue on into eternity. But atheism isn't comfortable, and, I would say, neither is life. It is messy, and it is complex. To be honest, the mantle "atheism" means nothing to me. What accepting that there is one life and nothing more has given me is an existentialist freedom, the desire to live each moment fully, and the moral code to accept we're all in this thing - this finite, one-shot life - together. In my world, atheism and zen marry quite well.
That is a good response. As much as I'd like to spit out the "I'd hold my morals and values even in that situation", I'd be a liar if I said it wouldn't at least cause me to rethink my values. I've gone into longer explanations on some other forums, depending on the tone of this conversation, I may go into said reasons here if the thread says serious enough. I've read a lot of Locke, Rousseau, and writings from our founding fathers and other influential members of the way our government was created, and believe and espouse a lot of their ideas. From their writings about things like the rights of man and the role of society over systems like anarchism and 'every man for himself', my personal belief is that government can never take a life. In either case, I think people who are strongly versed in their religion or lack thereof, whether it be atheism, Christianity, Islam, or others, can definitely contribute to the finals days or hours of a person's life. Obviously, there have been bad people from every walk of life; there are heartless non-believers, and even people who use religion to support their actions on this mortal coil. That said, I think not having a strong belief system is one of the biggest contributing factors to murder and other wrongs in our world; it's the people who don't stop and think about their morals, or what they want, and live in a hedonistic "in the moment" lifestyle that let themselves fall for bad actions.
Just a side-note, fellow traveller among the social contract theorists. Interesting, and tragic, how Rousseau's "We The People" became Robespierre's battle cry to open the sluicegate of human blood.
Haha, too true, too true. I'm in a European history class right now, and I absolutely love it. Those poor, easily persuaded Frenchies.
The French Revolution was one of the most important developments in world history, the consequences of which reverberate today. A fascinating period. Oh, and I'm French. You'd find me a difficult stone to turn.
Better, but I still think you are a fat and happy liberal punk. So can you answer now? How do you console them? Please feel free to drop the thread.
Where do you believe you have the right to resort to personal insults of this kind? This is the discourse you engage in - when people disagree, you pick up your toys and hurl crap like this? I'll provide an answer. You're missing the point. Religion can provide comfort, sure, because it says the life you have, that is about to end, will begin again once the lights go out. But it isn't necessarily true. A bolus of valium, or morphine, can provide comfort as well. Does this make any of them somehow the truth? I can tell you that telling a condemned atheist he will be reborn in another life will provide little comfort, since he or she has already concluded such a thing doesn't exist. I am not disparaging religion for those to whom it provides good things. But I would say the setup of your query is flawed.
Good man, read his/her initial response. Did she even attempt to read the post or offer a genuine response as YOU DID? I'd prefer counsel on how to deal with forum idiots. I suppose you are right. The question is not very good. It was a genuine question. I just can not imagine on an atheist would deal with the existential experience of the condemned. Let me ask you this, if it were a Christian, would you at least support their beliefs at that moment? Not accept them, but help provide them comfort in with their own faith. I know you can answer this if you imagine it to be someone close to you. Let me add, I spent many days and nights in an atheist chat room and being civil to one another was not that difficult.
Diex, I did read her initial post. I didn't see her level an insult at you. I did see her respond to being called "unfeeling" by definition, because she is an atheist. I also saw her say while she thinks it's a crock, whatever gets you through the day. I saw that she thinks you are contraverting the dictum, "judge not." I think we are free to disagree. I think responding with "fat punk" is a world apart from what you received, and I think it is inappropriate. To your question, of course, to a Christian, I would offer whatever comfort the person needs, and if the Christian promise of new life is what they need, give it to them, unreservedly. I am against the penalty. I am for protecting one's own, or an innocent, by whatever means necessary and I wouldn't hesitate to end the life of someone who would kill me, mine or another innocent - but only to prevent the would-be murderer from succeeding. Once caught, put them away, forever. No parole, no escape clause.
Well, I'm as Atheist as you can get, yet I'm against capital punishment. I think natural selection should decide, not a huge organisation such as the government.