Ah yes, no responsibility for supporting the war. You don't want to hear about the cost, the debt that our grandkids will bear. You don't want to hear about millions of refugees, or hundreds of thousands of dead innocents. You don't want to take responsibility for voting for Clinton, who killed a million people with a decade of bombing and food for oil sanctions. You just want to support the war, puff your chest, and call yourself a "Real American". There is a crap ton of great things in America, but this war is not one of them. You've got family there, or I would have a lot harder words than this, and only keep it at moderate level, out of respect for you. Certainly not out of respect for the government and their war profiteering cronies.
You are correct, I don't want to hear someone blame America first and make up lies to tear their country down with in a thread that was started to show something positive. Apparently the success has upset you, otherwise you would not be trying to twist the progress of it around, yet again, to how bad America is. Like I said, some are disappointed in success. So disappointed, they misrepresent facts. With each passing post, it's starting to become clearer and clearer who they are, yet again. You don't need my approval or permission to post your "harsh" words. Every post continues to validate things I've pointed out in the past.
Gtech dude, this country is the greatest country on this planet. Its ideal in its people represent something truly amazing, freedom. Too think that such a great place would not be inflitrated within from the world powers that tried to stop us from becoming a country to begin with is foolish. I'm not saying stop listening to country, I'm not saying stop flying the flag, and NEVER stop believe in the constititution... but for CHRIST SAKE.... Be REAL man, OF COURSE there is enemies WITHIN our mists in sheepskin.
It is good news. Peace is always good. If US can enlist the support of ordinary Iraqis, then the days of terrorists are numbered. US should empower Iraqis, and get out of Iraq. This will reduce the support for terrorists. But if US decides to build permanent military bases in Iraq, then it could spell BIG TROUBLE and NEVER-ENDING WAR for US...
lol terrorists lol... I'm going to be a terrorist if someone tries to kill my family. Plain and simple. As long as people don't want to be slaves there will be 'terrorists'. we should, but we never will, the goal is a permanent force there. We're never leaving period, watch and see.
You guys know... not too long ago, there was this really deceptive violent force in the world called empiriliasm... its what our forefathers fought to break free from... Do not understand a smart enemy, they will infiltrate you.
Wasnt there someone in iraq called qasm? wasnt he also a good leader for iraq just liek mossadegh was in iran, hmm i wonder what happened to him? i wonder if anyone wants to hear this story? I think gtech would call it another lie, and please guys , the point of democracy is always trust your government because the government is made up of saints and angels that will never lie. Hey , gtech , i wonder if i could interest you in some beachfront property in alabama?
I agree with what you say. But remember, you have the power of internet now. It is not like old times anymore. Politicians can no longer lie like they used to in the good old days of horse wagons and snail-mail. Revolutions can be brought about by the power of Internet. Don't worry, just support the Antiwar movement, and PRAY...
I'm challenging you. Which facts have I misrepresented? Post them. I want a chance to rebut your facts with facts. Please, let's intellectualize this argument and drop the accusations and slanders of "hating America" Sean Hannity style. If you're going to call a man a liar, and claim he is not a honest or a patriot, then you better be able to back it up with truth. On this, you are correct. I don't need your approval or permission. I allow my conscience to guide me. When hundreds of thousands of people are dead, and millions are refugees, my conscience dictates that this is unacceptable. The price of my safety and security is not mass murder.
Gtech tries to discredit you and is failing miserably just like his lover G.W. Bush I guess miserable failure is common for people who can't handle the truth.
You didn't present any facts, you presented opinion. Your numerical representations to try and turn good news into bad news. Surely you had to know and be aware that this is what your strategy was? It's very clear it's what your intention is. That I can do. I could also just make up numbers like you have. I'm held to a higher standard though. I'm not a ron paul supporter. Your conscience obviously doesn't include accepting good news, as it's clear your only objective is to twist it and once again, lay blame to your country. I don't hold your hand and ask you to blame America first. You do it of your own free will, in virtually every thread. If you want credit for being a patriot and being Optimistic, like Reagan was, you'll have to earn it. You don't earn such by using the tactics you are using, tearing America down, blaming America first and ceaselessly attacking it with fictitious claims in order to appear that you cannot stand America. Seems like common sense to me. It's like saying "bread sucks," then trying to take credit for saying the bread is actually great, but that you don't like it. Shit, or get off the pot (as they say). If you want others to believe you care about your country and are not tearing it down in virtually every thread, then stop doing it.
Gtech, WAKE UP!!!! OF COURSE THERE IS ENEMIES IN OUR MIST!!!! OF COURSE THEY HAVE SPENT COUNTLESS DAYS USING MANIPULATION TO TRY TO TAKE OUR FREEDOMS FROM US!!!! THEY'RE FREAKIN EUROPEANS ITS WHAT THEY DO! dude, gtech, your a hypocrit. You call me a crazy ron paul support, and then you talk like your all on reagans nuts, when he was the kook building a star wars program for 'otherwordly threats!'... oh ya, and he was moving crack cocaine, remember the contra scandal? Also, he's a pedophile, a murderer, oh and there's pictures of him at the bohemian grove.... I don't know about you GTECH, but worshipping a big owl named moloch and sacrificing 'care' doesn't sound to 'patriotic' to me... it sounds like some more goddamn weirdo royals. He deserves no respect. And I will spit on him in the afterlife too, while he's boofooning you from behind. no offense to europeans, more directed at your royalty... cause I could never say anything bad about your women
But your facts to refute my opinion right? You're not relying solely on your opinion when you insinuate I am a liar, correct? Great! I am anxiously awaiting facts that prove your position. Which you haven't stated yet btw, you've merely implied that I am a liar. What is your position GTech? How many dead Iraqis are there? How many Iraqi refugees are there? Surely you know, if you are going to say my numbers are wrong. Except GTech, I'm talking about reported #s. It's not subjective, I'm merely using reported facts as the basis for my argument. So please, provide the facts you are using to refute my position. Oh GTech. How little you understand of the country you live in. The tradition of people over government, the tradition of morality and justice. The spirit of independence, and self-reliance. This country has a strong, but aging tradition, going back to the Star Spangled Banner, of fighting to be free. Free of the rich, the royal, and coercion into unjust foreign wars. Perhaps when you are better educated on these things, we can return to the topic of who is the real patriot. Who is willing to stand up to an unjust establishment, and who is willing to speak truth to power. Do you have the courage and the veracity to face truth? I'll wait for your facts.
I've not presented any facts. Your position is incorrect. You've used the same discredited source to perpetuate these numbers in the past and I have called you on them before. They are not facts. You can wait all you want. The numbers you attempt to use are from a discredited report, the lancelet report. Your only purpose in using these discredited and inflated numbers is to tear your country down. We're not talking about dead Iraqis. At least we were not, until you arrived to blame America first again. I have no idea how many Iraqis were killed by the people you've admired over the past year. Most people try to give their credit to our troops, then claim to "support" them when convenient. I would love to see these reported facts, again. I suspect if they were legitimate, you would have already posted them. Source your "facts" and I will be glad to source those that have discredited such. You seem to be in the same position, yet again, of holding me to a higher standard. This has nothing to do with ceaselessly tearing down one's country. Our forefathers fought islamic terrorists back then. They did not curl up into a ball and give aid and comfort to the enemy by sqawlking about how bad America sucks. Perhaps some day, the basis of virtually every post you make, will not be to tear down your country under the guise that it's the new and improved definition of patriotism. I've yet to see a definition of patriotism that includes "blame America first" in any form of wording, nor is ceaselessly tearing down your country, to quell good news, patriotic. It seems some want to attach themselves to the honors that go along with patriotism, but are not willing to do the things it represents. Tearing one's country down and blaming it first, are not patriotism. That you went OUT OF YOUR WAY to turn success around to pessimism is a continued testament to that. Shit, or get off the pot. Do you have the courage and the veracity to face truth? I'll wait for your facts.[/QUOTE]
You're also forgetting Johns Hopkins University. Who has discredited my facts? Do you have a source? You can find the #s on Wikipedia. I think it is an even 36/37% split between civilian casualties by Americans and violent insurgents. Ah, I see. You pre-emptively labeled me a liar, before seeing my facts, all the while claiming they were already discredited. Sounds a lot like WMDs and Yellow Cake Uranium to me. Oh GTech, you would have made such a good Nazi. When the state tells you and your children to round up your fellow Americans, I bet you will do it with a smile on your face, and the flag draped over your shoulders. And there it is. For you, being Patriotic is an honor. For me, it is a duty. Fighting for the rule of law is patriotism. Fighting for civil liberties, is patriotism. Fighting lies, evil and corruption is a duty, not an honor. You put the glory ahead of the sacrifice, and that is why you'll always defend the corrupt state, the war mongerers and the authoritarians. Because they are the only ones who can honor your devotion in a superficial way. You don't have to think, or to challenge your preconceptions. You don't have to make moral decisions, because you abdicate those personal responsibilities to your masters, under the guise of "following orders" and "defending the country". I wonder if you are a Christian, and if so, how you reconcile trading other people's lives for your own. I'm sure you own a "Good Book", I'm just not sure you comprehend it.
Shhhh! If you ask questions, you obviously hate America. No one should ever question the government. GTech is keeping a file on all of us!
They are not your facts. You are simply parroting discredited numbers from a partisan report that has been debunked many times, for the sake of covering up positive (Optimism) news, with negativity (Pessimism) because you are disappointed with the success. Anyone can clearly see this. The fictitious lancet report and it's discrediting/debunking can be found here. I've not seen any recent numbers, but I do know the ones you are touting to portray your country in the worst possible light are long since proven false. There's only one reason you would use numbers from this discredited report in a post started about success in Iraq. Can we not agree on that? Incorrect. I've tangled enough with you in the past, and am very aware of how you attempt to portray dishonest sources to tear America down. As such, I'm familiar with the discredited "facts" you attempt to use in your mission. Godwined, so soon? I'm not the one whose candidate has tremendous neo-nazi and white supremacist support. Might think about that one, before attempting the nazi card. patriotism is easily defined - devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty. Notably missing in the definition: blaming your country first, ceaselessly attacking it day in and day out, using discredited information to portray your country in a bad light in a discussion about positive success, making up false claims to on a forum where international members participate in order to paint your country in a bad light. All of these things are missing. I wonder why, guerilla? If you want the honor that comes with patriotism, you are clearly on the wrong path. You cannot do the opposite of patriotism (treason?) and pretend it's the new definition. What I don't do, is tear my country down and use false/made up claims to do so. Perhaps you believe there is honor in that. You seem to want some honor/respect for doing such. If you treated our country they way you kindly treated Iran (a country who has America blood on their hands), perhaps you would be. As such, you come across as patriotic at times, but to the USA. I trade nothing for nothing. Better men and women than your or I will ever be, support and defend this country, so that people like you that tear our country down can hide behind the Constitution. Some people need more protection under the Constitution than others. These are the very same peope, that you are trying to blame with discredited sources and inflated numbers. The ones you pretend to "support" when the bandwagon comes along, but when our soldiers deserve some credit for all but diminished violence in Iraq, you choose to use inflated numbers to tear them down with. How do you know they are facts, if you don't know how many died? See the debunking in the link I provided above. Double standards.
Some people attack America under the guise of "just asking questions." They equate using false and debunked numbers to quell success as questioning, when in fact, there are no questions.
If you spent a little more time debunking, and a lot less time accusing people through slander, the questions would dry up. But I don't think that is your goal. It's like all of the people who didn't take Ron Paul seriously, called him a kook, until he started turning out 1000's to rallies and millions in fund raising. Your day of reckoning is coming. The facts and truth will be insurmountable, and the only way I see you facing the music is to use your new tactic of blaming it on dusty history with another healthy dose of slander on the side.