Obama and the Muslim mystery

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by britishguy, Nov 14, 2007.

  1. Toopac

    Toopac Peon

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    #41
    It's a good job Canadians can't vote:D
     
    Toopac, Nov 18, 2007 IP
  2. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #42
    bogart, Nov 19, 2007 IP
  3. M5love

    M5love Well-Known Member

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    #43
    M5love, Nov 19, 2007 IP
  4. gauharjk

    gauharjk Notable Member

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    #44
    Barak Obama is Young and full of energy.

    If I were an American, I would have voted for Obama instead of Hillary Clinton.

    Hillary Clinton has stale ideas. It has nothing to do with the fact that she is a woman.. :)

    Ron Paul is good, but Obama has the charisma of a President.
     
    gauharjk, Nov 21, 2007 IP
  5. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #45
    It's really funny now. Obama is bragging that his experience as a muslim in the madrassa and his muslim backgroung via his family in Kenya make him more experiened in foreign policy than Hillary.
     
    bogart, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  6. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #46
    Bogart, please provide proof. As far as I know, Obama was simply saying his time abroad as a kid gave him foreign policy experience:


    Clinton pounced on it, I'd say, rightfully so, as it's a ridiculous thing to say that as a kid he gained valuable foreign policy perspective, but nowhere did Obama claim he is a muslim (not that I would care - when Kennedy was elected, all sorts of folks went up in arms that a "papist" would go to the Pope on bended knee for his policy advice.). From all accounts, the man is simply a Christian. Here, from Urban Legends. Take it for what you will:

    http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm

    From his own website:


    Isn't it about time the man is judged on the merits?
     
    northpointaiki, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  7. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #47
    Obama is a mystery man. I was suprised to learn that he is Dick Cheney's cousin.

    His records as a state senator were destroyed and his past is cloudy. His schooling in Indonesia was over 35 years ago and there is little record of it. It will be hard to prove anything about Obama's past.
     
    bogart, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  8. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #48
    But Bogart, you didn't say his schooling was cloudy, or not well-documented, you said:

    And I see nothing of the kind in what he said. I'm asking for a source that proves he said he was raised a muslim in a madrassa, and that he had a "muslim background" in Kenya. (Again, I don't care if he were a muslim, or any other faith - character would come into play, however, if he were just a liar).

    The founding of the e-mail slur campaign is well established. In the absence of anything other than this spurious campaign, based on zero proof of anything, and in the presence of so much proof of his life (a longtime member of his church, etc.), why buy it? Why not go with the evidence?

    As to his state senate record, I would say this, too, has been distorted. The stuff people are looking for is in the public record. Obama did not say his records were destroyed - only that he didn't have the resources to maintain them under his aegis, beyond the archival process of the state senate. This, too, is a misquote of the man. He said:

    -And in this, he isn't alone. As a former staffer for a California State Senator (long time ago - Omer L. Rains, (D)), I can tell you that to my knowledge, we didn't maintain them, either. The stuff that matters - e.g., voting record - is in the public weal.

    I feel he is being unfairly maligned. It's time to judge him on the merits.
     
    northpointaiki, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  9. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #49
    maybe he is selling rather than buying
     
    pizzaman, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  10. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #50
    who is selling?
     
    northpointaiki, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  11. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #51
    bogart is trying to sell his warped views
     
    pizzaman, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  12. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #52
    Ah. Well, I'll leave Bogart to answer. I try to take everyone in good faith until proven otherwise. There are alot of folks I disagree with, but as much as I'd hope for a fair hearing, I'd hope I give it as well.
     
    northpointaiki, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  13. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #53
    Barack Obama's father was a muslim and he was raised a muslim in Indonesia.

    Here's a good quote from political strategist Mike Baker: "It's not about Obama being Muslim that concerns me. It's the fact that he's been deceptive about his religious and educational background,"

    "A background check of the 45-year old Illinois Democrat revealed that he was a student in a Muslim madrassa in Indonesia and that he was raised by his stepfather as a Muslim.

    While his defenders are calling this an attack based on fear-mongering, there are those who believe this is troubling news since Obama never mentioned this information in his book."

    http://www.commonvoice.com/article.asp?colid=6578

    Barack Obama was born on August 4th, 1961, in Hawaii to Barack Obama, Sr. and Ann Dunham.

    http://obama.senate.gov/about/

    Barack Hussein OBAMA Sr. was born in 1936 in Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya and died in a car crash in Nairobi, Kenya in 1982, leaving three wives, six sons and a daughter. All but one of his children live in Britain or the United States. One of the brothers died in 1984. He is buried in the village of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya.

    Hussein Onyango OBAMA was born about 1895 and died in 1979. Before settling down to work as a cook for missionaries in Nairobi he was a traveler. Recruited to fight for colonial power England in World War I, he visited Europe and India, and afterward lived for a time in Zanzibar, where he converted from Christianity to Islam, family members said.

    http://genealogy.about.com/od/aframertrees/p/barack_obama.htm

    Obama's muslim backgrond is more or less like Kerry and the 'swift boat' controvesy. It's hard to prove either way. Though a lot of the allegations against Bill Clinton later on turned out to be fact.
     
    bogart, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  14. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #54
    the only question remaining is why is he selling so hard?!
    and who is he selling it to?
     
    pizzaman, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  15. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #55
    Your free to believe anything you want. It doesn't bother me. :)
     
    bogart, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  16. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #56
    i never buy from someone pushing so hard and i never play three card monte either
     
    pizzaman, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  17. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #57
    Bogart, sorry, but I believe you are making the point I am trying to make.

    First of all, you said Barack Obama indicated:

    And I am again asking you for proof he said this = that Barack Obama "bragged" he was raised a muslim in a madrassa, and he has a muslim background via his family in Kenya.

    Secondly, Mike Baker is a GOP strategist, and the "Common Voice" article is an absolutely unsourced piece of - I hesitate to use it - journalism. Simply stating "a background check reveals..." or "Democrat Party sources say..." is, I'm sorry, garbage data to rely on by any common standard of ethical journalistic practice.

    I don't understand how the genealogy data helps your argument. It merely gives a cursory discussion of Barack's dad, and, I presume, his granddad?

    The only evidence we do have is an e-mail campaign making allegations that are not proven, disguising them as if they were.
     
    northpointaiki, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  18. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #58
    Touting or bragging, it's all a play on words. Obama has downplayed his muslim background. But now he touting it as part of his foreign policy credentials. Obama's father was a Kenyan muslim and Obama was raised by his Muslim stepfather in Indonesia. Only Obama know what is going on in his mind. Every voter is going to have to make up their own minds on whether to trust Obama.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21910076/
     
    bogart, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  19. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #59
    Bogart, I'm sorry, but it seems to me you are avoiding my question. The excerpt you posted is the same one I posted (refer to post #46), and nowhere in that announcement regarding his childhood does he say he was raised a muslim, etc. When in his statement about his childhood did he ever indicate he was raised a muslim, much less attended a muslim madrassa?

    I again reiterate I couldn't care less what religion he is. I would care that he is a liar. The only proof we have is twofold:

    1. That he is indeed a Christian, who attends church regularly, and who has been an active member of the Chicago christian community for a long, long time;

    2. There was an e-mail campaign making b.s. allegations based on nothing but suspicions (at best) and outright smear (my more likely guess).

    So far, I continue to see nothing but allegations and innuendo in stating he's a liar, and, sorry, that stinks. The man deserves to be judged on his merits.
     
    northpointaiki, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  20. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #60
    I believe the original reports about Obama's background.

    http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm
     
    bogart, Nov 23, 2007 IP